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Hi tomo pauk,
If Germany had such a surplus of machine tools - I honestly wouldn't know, but that would not be the issue.
After Hitler had cut of the German industry from its main supplier of tungsten (China) in 1938/9 a steady decline in the quality output by its machine tooling industry
(which needs Wolframcarbid/Tungsten) became obvious by 1941 - e.g. very disastrous effects on valves and high tolerance parts for its jet-engine manufacturers and as such
actually rendering its Me 262 fleet on behalf of its jet-engines as vastly useless. That a lack in skilled manpower or forced labor made it even worse is undeniable.
Regards
Jagdflieger
Hi toma pauk,A big reduction in nickel content was the culprit in exhaust valves corrosion, with disastrous results on reliability for the 1st line aero engines of German production (DB engines suffering also due to not having the oil de-aerator - "Oelschleuder" - like the Jumo engines had; de-aerator was introduced by some time in late 1943). Eventually, the BMW solution to the problem from late 1942 was adopted for the DB engines.
Lack of nickel was also a problem for making durable blades for turbine on jet engines, that was circumvented via the introduction of air-cooled blades made from the chromium-rich alloy.
You can take a look at Calum Douglas' book, or his webinar discussing the rough state of availability of raw materials in Germany, ans steps taken to alleviate the problems.
As for disparity between workforce and machine tools, see for example this document; yes, not all the machines are equal. Basically, Germany in early 1945 have had about the same number of machine tools as the USA, despite having far less population.
Thanks for showing these documents, interesting...... but that only really applies if the Battle of Britain can be won, as without Britain as a staging base, the whole thing suddenly gets more difficult and of course German forces
potentially become so distributed that neutralising Berlin feels less likely to be immediately decisive.
Even the 1500 HP engines don't solve the problem of Bf 109 too short the range because it haven't carried enough of fuel. It might even make the problem of range/radius worse, since more powerful engines will be using more fuel.
The main beneficiary of greater engine power would've been the Bf 110?
Winning the BoB (in sense that RAF FC can't fight over SE England) still does not equal the successful invasion of the UK in 1940.
Hi Grant Barr,Thanks for the input and documentary evidence Calum, D Deleted member 68059 . Indeed it was your book that prompted me to ask the initial what-if.
I did have passing knowledge of the fact that Germany faced serious shortages of additive metals during the war, but I was unaware of the impact of just nickel alone. As you noted - it was a double impact. I would love to know how many extra hours were devoted to developing design solutions to counter the lack of quality resource metals. The exhaust valve issues you documented alone would just be the tip of the iceberg. This is an aspect of the what-if that fascinates me. If the engineers and designers were free from having to develop these novel solutions, what other advancements might have been made. Not something that I think anyone can answer with certainty, but the possibilities are intriguing.
J Jagdflieger &tomo pauk , thanks also for your thoughts. I think that in the immediacy of the early war the lack of nickel may not have made a huge difference, however I suspect that there is scope to think that the small impact earlier in the war may have had a "snowball" effect which may (and I say this only generally) have changed some events later in the war. Whether or not this would have any significant affect on outcome is not likely to be in question, however the duration of the war may have been different and some key battles may not have had the same outcome. As you have already noted, there are still other serious deficiencies that Germany faced outside of materiel that would still play out, but by changing just this one parameter there must be subsequent changes that flow on right through the German war effort. How big could these changes have been - who knows?
All this speculation on possible impacts - that's the fun part of the what-if!
Thanks for showing these documents, interesting.
But again, Nazi-Germany besides lunatic expectations and ideas was short of everything - right down to "trained" pilots. what many might not take into consideration
was that advanced flight training that was supposed to take place at the Jagdfliegerschulen - factually never took place anywhere near the intended/planed numbers.
A 'miracle" in that regard actually happened after the fall of France, which enabled around 400-500 well trained German POW crewmen to rejoin the Luftwaffe.
The same fortunate circumstances didn't happen during the BoB. It was a massive drain of good and experienced pilots that had been trained in the period 1935 -1938.
As for a "maybe" successful invasion of Britain, on my part I don't find that feasible due to all kinds of factual occurrences. But I am sure there must be hundreds of threads
in dozens of forums dedicated towards that 'if" scenario.
Regards
Jagdflieger
Yes if that option would be feasible - no doubt, but with Churchill (his mindset/conviction) having taken over, IMHO this is not feasible to me.While I agree with your assessment of Sealion's potential for success, it should be noted that the conquest of the UK isn't necessary to remove the UK as a base of operations. A negotiated peace in 1940 rendering the UK neutral would achieve the same objective.
Yes if that option would be feasible - no doubt, but with Churchill (his mindset/conviction) having taken over, IMHO this is not feasible to me.
Where I might see a consensus would be under the circumstance that if Hitler had not declared war onto the USA - therefore refocusing onto the England issue from 1942 onward
and with England as such realizing that they are indeed on their own. But with a lunatic at the helm) - I think that even this alternate option just wouldn't be feasible either.
Regards
Jagdflieger
And let's not forget there was the Nazi party leader No. 2 who had flown to Scotland - remember?Historically, there many in England in the summer of 1940 who were on the fence. Had the RAF lost BoB, it's not certain Churchill could have retained power, I don't think. Of course, we're well into what-if territory here, so who knows?
What kind of plane Hess flying again?
I know. It was a shout out of sorts to John Vasco and Jagdflieger.Bf.110 IIRC
It was a shout out of sorts to John Vasco and Jagdflieger.
The thing that used to strike me as humorous was the number of people who used to come to the museum with bits of twisted metal claiming that they were parts of Hess' Bf 110. The thing must have been the size of a 747 with all the stuff that we saw that was allegedly from the aircraft. Some were quite big, too.
View attachment 663636MoF 99
Pretty sure that was the air-conditioner on the KLM 707 I flew on from Amsterdam to Tehran via Athens and Beirut.