- Thread starter
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- #101
Romantic Technofreak
Airman
- 37
- Jul 12, 2008
One prerequisition for any German success is the appearance of Messerschmitt Me 261 long-range reconnoisaters. They have the speed and range for to perform the task. Give them some radar, and they could find (nearly) any convoy in any weather condition. They also could shadow any convoy by performing alternating patrol service. They are slower than a Corsair, of course, but can confuse and challenge the fighter force. I would even let a bunch of them do the first wave of an attack, for distracting the fighters.
Another trouble for the Germans was exact distance measuremant over thousands of kilometers. A special device for this was service-ready at the end of 1944, when it was too late. Probably change of priorities would have made accessible also this one year earlier.
So, once on the convoy, the Me 261s could have directed the bombers there. But the Allies also would know, if only the reconnoisaters are on the convoy, something is to expect.
On the flightpath outward, the bombers could have been guided by Focke-Wulf Fw 187 long-range fighters (hopefully nobody sees them with their weak engines the real versions had).
On the flightpath inward, the bombers could scatter and were not easy to be found by patrolling Allied fighters. More see below to NevadaK.
Money is nothing, the central bank creates it from nothing. Materiels were there, if you change the production program completely, e.g. cancel He 111 and Ju 88. Factories could have been created or regrouped within about one year.
N NevadaK
First, thank you for your kind words!
When you read what I above say to Fastmongrel, you may imagine that a He 177/Hs 293 force could not successfully stand alone. Fierce attacks on Southwestern British airfields, performed e.g. by numbers of Messerschmitt Me 410s, from weeks before the first big anti-convoy action takes place, would have been necessary as well.
Please take a look at your own map (also, thank you very much for this work). The bend which your route makes off the southern tip of Iceland, in my eyes is the optimal point of attacking the convoys. It is well accessible from Northwest France or Southwest Norway. As I said above, it would be necessary to clear the way for the bombers. E.g. the Allies could have, and would have, occupied Ireland, if they saw this as necessary. From France, the German bombers must have crossed the Southwestern tip of Ireland. The Allies could have placed airfields and radar stations there, which would also become subject of German medium-range attacks. Radar ships were targets as well, the more as they demask themselves as such.
Smoke is no solution, as I argued above. The bombers must stay out of the range of AA fire. I say they would suffer unbearable losses, but for me it is enough to credit them to the carrier fighter force.
Seeing Germany as incapable of performing such attacks at the end of 1942, it means the responsibles may have seen themselves capable for this at the end of 1943. The scenario says, what could have happened, had more creative persons taken over in Germany in autumn of 1942.
@All
Please let me return to my questions (my friend's statements) of July 8th. I asked:
1) The Allies are not able to group 30 carriers for protecting a single convoy nor to supply them.
2) The Allied side is not able to launch a satisfying number of fighters once the radar system detected the approaching German bombers.
3) The Allies are not able to keep a permanent overhead patrol of ~100 fightes airborne.
4) Yes, the German bombers will suffer losses. But: the Allies will loose carriers instead, for multiple losses of lives.
So, does still somebody mean:
1) The Allies have better things to do than trying to save Britain and could not or would not group 30 carriers, if needed.
2) Especially under bad-weather conditions of Nothern Atlantic, the carrier force is unable to launch a sufficient number of fighters, the more as the carriers had to turn to the opposite direction for a west-east-going convoy. This not even in case if the presence of Messerschmitt Me 261 reconnoisaters is already noted, so a coming attack is highly probable.
3) Cannot better describe this, than questioned already.
4) Everybody agreed to severe bomber losses. But there "should be" heavier-weighing Allied carrier losses, so this kind of attrition war were more promising for the German side.
Hope you still enjoy, and best regards,
RT