SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Ford did stick with the model T past its sell by date IIRC and Chevrolet picked up a lot of market share with newer designs. It does happen.
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And when Chevrolet picked up that market share, Henry must have been very happy.Ford did stick with the model T past its sell by date IIRC and Chevrolet picked up a lot of market share with newer designs. It does happen.
The Model T was after all, Henry's pride and joy.The Model T was the car America should have, believed Mr. Ford. I'm sure he was disappointed with us. I don't have any documentation on this, just some vague memories of documentaries or perhaps articles about the the model T. Just addressing the point that a competent manufacturer can become enamored with a design.
You seem to not realize that 99% of the time any aircraft company, even a "forward thinking company" does not just go off and design an aircraft for the military just for the hell of it (this is called an unsolicited offer). Aircraft companies are driven by a contract specification to build an aircraft to a certain specification, in the US folks at Wright Patterson AFB or Pax River usually do that. I'm not aware of any operational US fighter aircraft from WW2 that began life unsolicited, and if someone knows better, please correct me. The only combat aircraft I'm aware of that evolved from an unsolicited offer in modern times was the F-117A.When I mentioned not having monies in the period we're talking about a number of others proceeded to tell me that with war on the horizon congress had already loosened the purse strings. Of course after Dec. 7th, the sky was no longer the limit when it came to available monies but a number of others here have said that plenty was already available before the attack. So which was it?
At least in my view a competent manufacturer would not be enamored of a single successful product to the point of doing nothing but variations on a theme. A forward thinking company would have a minimum of one new design on the boards and ideally would be looking at two or three possibilities of new designs and exploring how they might be achieved. The worst thing a aircraft company can do is to sit on it's laurels.
Ford was Given 14.3 million dollars on Sept 17th 1940 build an engine factory on a bare plot of ground. Ford Held a ceremonial ground breaking the same day.others here have said that plenty was already available before the attack. So which was it?
See Curtiss XP-46, XP-53, the XP-60 saga, the XP-55. and more.A forward thinking company would have a minimum of one new design on the boards and ideally would be looking at two or three possibilities of new designs and exploring how they might be achieved.
I guess I'm trying to understand why they weren't that good? Also what about the other companies?Ford was Given 14.3 million dollars on Sept 17th 1940 build an engine factory on a bare plot of ground. Ford Held a ceremonial ground breaking the same day.
Ford built 1 engine in Oct 1941, 99 in Nov 1941, 164 in Dec of 1941 and exceeded 600 engines a month in Sept of 1942.
It takes time even with money. BTW the 14.3 million was just for the factory, the money for the engines came later.
On Sept 26th 1941 Ford Had contracts for 10,517 engines.
See Curtiss XP-46, XP-53, the XP-60 saga, the XP-55. and more.
In actual fact Curtiss had more new designs built and tested than any other company in WW II and in fact may have had as many as any other TWO companies.
They just weren't very good
The Curtiss company sitting back fat dumb and happy is one of the great myths of WW II.
Curtiss did design the CW-21 as an unsolicited offer aircraft in the hopes that the Chinese and hopefully someone else might buy it. I'm sure that if the U.S. Military had shown interest, they would have been happy to try to build it to whatever spec. might be needed.You seem to not realize that 99% of the time any aircraft company, even a "forward thinking company" does not just go off and design an aircraft for the military just for the hell of it (this is called an unsolicited offer). Aircraft companies are driven by a contract specification to build an aircraft to a certain specification, in the US folks at Wright Patterson AFB or Pax River usually do that. I'm not aware of any operational US fighter aircraft from WW2 that began life unsolicited, and if someone knows better, please correct me. The only combat aircraft I'm aware of that evolved from an unsolicited offer in modern times was the F-117A.
Good point. Coming out of the Depression many aircraft companies would have been trying to sell a variety of different aircraft just to stay in business. But that should have led to them looking at multiple answers for each class. It could be as you say, they were spread to thin.I think I once counted 13 or 14 different aircraft programs at Curtiss-- fighters, trainers, transports, dive bombers, float planes for cruisers/battleships.
There may have been more?
Perhaps Curtiss spread themselves too thin?
Yes, correct, but design and development was done with company funds. It was at a time when this could be done with some risk but as can seen, it didn't really go anywhere. I believe under 40 CW-21s and CW-21As were manufactured, factor in the cost of design and development and I'd bet Curtiss lost money on this one. I also think the US military saw the limitations with the aircraft as well.Curtiss did design the CW-21 as an unsolicited offer aircraft in the hopes that the Chinese and hopefully someone else might buy it. I'm sure that if the U.S. Military had shown interest, they would have been happy to try to build it to whatever spec. might be needed.
Actually, Seversky landed a few military contracts with their SEV family.You seem to not realize that 99% of the time any aircraft company, even a "forward thinking company" does not just go off and design an aircraft for the military just for the hell of it (this is called an unsolicited offer). Aircraft companies are driven by a contract specification to build an aircraft to a certain specification, in the US folks at Wright Patterson AFB or Pax River usually do that. I'm not aware of any operational US fighter aircraft from WW2 that began life unsolicited, and if someone knows better, please correct me. The only combat I'm aware of that evolved from an unsolicited offer in modern times was the F-117A.
But were they unsolicited? The P-35 and P-43 were designed to a specification IIRC, don't know about the BT-8Actually, Seversky landed a few military contracts with their SEV family.
Going by memory, the BT-8 was one, the P-35 and P-43 were others as well as the A8V, which the IJN and USAAC purchased.
Yep, the competitor they sent to the USAAC was the SEV-2XP (2 seater). It was damaged and rebuilt to a SEV-1XP and competed against Curtiss' Hawk 75.But were they unsolicited? The P-35 and P-43 were designed to a specification IIRC, don't know about the BT-8
But the SEV-1XP / Curtiss Hawk 75 was still based on an AAC spec IIRC. The P-43 was company funded and the AAC liked it and purchased it. The BT-8 might have been unsolicited. Point is none of the major fighters were unsolicitedYep, the competitor they sent to the USAAC was the SEV-2XP (2 seater). It was damaged and rebuilt to a SEV-1XP and competed against Curtiss' Hawk 75.
The BT-8 was the SEV-3 and the P-43 was a spin-off of the AP family (including a one-off navalized version in the hopes of wooing a navy contract).
The XP-41 was a modified P-35, the XP-43 was derived from an AP-4.
It appears that Seversky's marketing strategy was to make a whole series of one-offs in the hopes that one or more would land a contract.
Oddly enough, it seemed to work...
To be fair the USAAC was not interested in a single engine interceptor aircraft at that time.Yes, correct, but design and development was done with company funds. It was at a time when this could be done with some risk but as can seen, it didn't really go anywhere. I believe under 40 CW-21s and CW-21As were manufactured, factor in the cost of design and development and I'd bet Curtiss lost money on this one. I also think the US military saw the limitations with the aircraft as well.
Was IIRC a general military aviation spec or were there particular categories that had to be met?But were they unsolicited? The P-35 and P-43 were designed to a specification IIRC, don't know about the BT-8
IIRC - "If I recall"Was IIRC a general military aviation spec or were there particular categories that had to be met?