What If?......

[cheddar cheese]

On this thread post some of the "what ifs?"of WW2.

example:
If the Piaggio P.108 was taken notice of by the germans, could it have given them the heavy bomber they desperately needed? With its 7,714lb payload and 2,175 miles range, it was similar to the b-17 in many respects, and as it had superb defensive armament it could probaby ave held off some enemy planes 8)
If the Germans had taken notice of this planes potential, and if production had continued i reckon it coud have played a large part in the war for the Axis 8)

 

[plan_D]

It probably would of done, and they might of even won the BoB..

But they didn't and Britain won...AHAHAHA!

 

[cheddar cheese]

the P.108 production began in 1941 though.......

 

[plan_D]

I heard they had a heavy bomber anyway, but I can't remember its name... Obviously they didn't use it, or it was late war.

 

[cheddar cheese]

i think you are thinking of the heinkel he-177, a great plane and one of my favourites but it was too lte and had too many flaws for it to play a major role

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Yes it could've done in my opinion....the Germans didn't take the Italian airforce very seriously during the war (who did?) and after the terrible embarrasment to the Luftwaffe during the battle of britain when the Italians led a few futile raids and went home with their tails between their legs - even less so

but that doesn't mean the pizza munching fiends didn't build any decent planes the Sm.79 was a damn fine bomber (especially in the torpedo role) the G.50 wasn't bad (except the two machine guns part) and the Cr.42 (despite my protests) WAS a damn good biplane fighter (but not as good as the Gladiator - sorry kiwi)

I don't know much about the P-108 i have to say..so going on what C.C said (for some reason i trust him 8) ) and the little i have read for myself i think the P-108 was a definate threat to the Allies - but if it was so good why didn't the Italians use it more effectively? the Germans were usually a bit pre-occupied with their own problems to notice anyone elses (and as i said the italians were a joke to them) but if they had notcied they probably would've 'germanised' it (to borrow a phrase from viper - RIP ) anyway and made it into a German bomber before they used it - but why didn't the Italians use it in the Mediterranean theatre?

besides you have to remember that we had some very effective home-defence fighters (spitfires, hurricanes, mossies etc) and i have enough faith in the RAF during that period to say that it would have to be a supersonic Jet-bomber to get through our defenses without suffering incredible losses

 

[plan_D]

Who took the Italians seriously? Even on the ground they were a joke. A good piece of equipment was soon made poor if an Italian got in it.

I suppose if the production started in 1941, they could of started again with heavier bombers after we beat the hell out of them in 1940.

 

[cheddar cheese]

but if it was so good why didn't the Italians use it more effectively

well, mussolinins son was killed in ne and it was this that slowed production 8) they also made a version with 102mmguns for attacking shipping, and 12 of the 163 P.108's made were transprt versions, so the italians obviously had big plans for the plane before the complications arose

 

[bronzewhaler82]

So if the Italians turned onto our side in 1943 (or was it 1942?)

did we use the P-108 to kill Germans? and if not...why not?

 

[plan_D]

The Italians never turned to our side. They just capatilised in 1943 when we invaded Italy. They never helped us militarily, this is probably why we didn't use it. And with that, we had plenty of heavy bombers.

102mm guns, are you serious? What a stupid idea, that's bigger than most tank guns. One variant of Henschel 129 had a 75mm cannon, I thought that was over the top. It did work though, very well apparently. Even if there were only 25 of them. But 102 mm? That's just crazy..

(I just wanted to use that emoticon for not particular reason)

 

[cheddar cheese]

But 102 mm? That's just crazy

italians were always crazy

did we use the P-108 to kill Germans? and if not...why not

a lot of them were captured by the germans and/or scrapped

 

[plan_D]

They were crazy, the unfortunate thing was that they weren't besserk crazy, instead of running at their enemy when the enemy took their safety catches off they ran away shouting 'GERMANY SAVE US THOSE NASTY GREEKS HAVE BEATEN US' then in North Africa 'GERMANY SAVE US THOSE NASTY BRITISH ARE BEATING US TO DEATH!!!' and then in Sicily and Italy 'We give up'.

 

[cheddar cheese]

respect to the italians though please 8)

 

[plan_D]

Italian by any chance?

I'm sorry, but even the Greeks beat them. And in North Africa, the Nile army counter attack captured 130,000 at a loss of 500 dead and 1,200 wounded. One thing for the Italians, they didn't really want to fight by 1943.
I respect anyone who fought, even the Romanians. Hah.

 

[cheddar cheese]

no im a brit 8)

 

[plan_D]

It's kind of confusing with the love of Italians, and the demand of respect for them. Oh, and the Soviet flag.

 

[R Pope]

Italians never went over to our side? Ever heard of the Co-belligerant Air Force? Macchi 202's, 205's and more fighting alongside Brits and Yanks.

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Yeah I agree with Pope - the Italians did fight with us against the Nazis...only briefly but i'm sure they did- as for respect the Italians do deserve a bit - they may not have been very effective fighters BUT at least they tried...unlike some other nations i could mention but won't...*cough* France! *cough* 8)

 

[plan_D]

And you consider that help?

France? Well France were cowards but they were just as bad as the Italians. The 120,000 Vichy French in North Africa and those Italians would have been a brilliant force in numbers, only problem is they see an enemy and surrender.

How can you respect the Italians and not respect the French, it's double standards.

If you call out-numbering the British 6-1 in North Africa then being beaten by them at a loss of 130,000 captured while the British lost 500 dead and 1,200 injured, you have low standards of trying.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Well France were cowards but they were just as bad as the Italians

how dare you nobody is as bad as the french and you are talking about the italians likethey were WORSE i agree with bronze 8) the potential was there, it just nobody took them seriously and they werent good enough to make their ideas work.