What If...?

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also the Graf could carry a huge number of aircraft as she also carryied allot of heavier armourment, they tried to fit her with large-ish guns so it wouldn't need cruiser escort i think...........
 
The Graf Zeppelin was put on water on 8 December 1938, in the same year Germans started building second carrier, a twin to Graf Z. - the Peter Strasser (don't know what happened with it later, probably never built more than 10% of it). Graf Zeppelin in 1940 was almost ready (90%)! The main problems were catapults and aerofinishers. The problem was solved, but decision was to stop building the ship.
42 planes were to base at Graf Z. - 2 squadrons of Bf 109T and one of Fi 167 (later Ju 87C). The artillery was really heavy as for an aircraft carrier. 16x150mm (they were put into project by mistake - original project included only 8 guns, but someone have mistaken, putting 8 guns on one board, which automatically doubled its number), 12x105mm and noumerous 37mm 20mm.
In 1942 when workers came back on board of Graf Z., the Kriegsmarine decided to rebuilt a bulk of heavy cruiser Seydlitz in Konigsberg. It was supposed to be equipped with 18 planes. Never finished of course.
 
british carriers would have made mince meat of her, we had dedicated torpedo bombers that were far more suited to carrier warfare than -87Cs, and i'm expecting CC was gonna say that the graf's armourment would help it, it really wouldn't, it took up space, was heavy, and british or even american battleships far out gunned it..........
 
Sure we had dedicated torpedo bombers...but 109s would have slaughtered Swordfishes (or most other FAA 'fighters' of the era)! The only reason the Stringbag stayed in service for so long was because it operated in environments where fighter threat was low.

As for British BBs...they wouldnt have got close enough to open fire. While roaming the North Sea and Atlantic looking for this carrier, they would be under constant threat from u-boats, long-range aircraft and GZs own Stukas. Looking at the record of British BBs vs aircraft and subs in the early war (when GZ would most likely have entered service), we get: one BB torpedoed at anchor, three sunk by air attack. None of the attacking forces suffered significantly. I think we can see that the odds would be somewhat long of our ships making it to the engaement intact.

As a footnote, check out the the record of the RN's surface-to-surface gunnery against the Bismarck. If it took that many major units that long to sink one crippled BB, I hate to think how long they would have taken to finish a carrier group. They'd have been sunk before they were halfway done.
:rolleyes:
 
Bear in mind that GZ should have gone into service in 1940-41. That means no Seafires, Sea Hurricanes only on CAM ships, and standard FAA equpment of Fulmar, Skua and Albacore. Oh, and no long range ASW aircraft except Ansons, cos all of the Whitleys and Wimpeys were still with Bomber Command. I still think a German carrier could have been decisve in the Atlantic theatre.
 
sorry in my previos post i should have mentioned that we'd also send carriers after her, it was aimed more at CC...........

and the swordfish stood up very well to fighters, she was very manouverable and crawled along much slower than the -109's stall speed..........

and you're forgetting that there was a chance she wouldn't even make it into the atlantic as we could atack her with land based aircraft when she's breaking out.......
 
I was including carriers in any force that might go after the GZ...and I dont think Skuas and Fulmars would have stood much chance against 109s. I also stand by my point of the Stringbag being vulnerable. If an intercept could be made at sufficient distance, the 109s would get to the Swordfish before they got low and slow to drop thier torps. And then there would have been a slaughter...
 
Remember though that although the state of the FAA's aircraft was somewhat dismal at the time, the RN had still been doing carrier ops for quite some time. The Germans were brand new to it. The design of the GZ shows that (someone already went over the heavy guns, and such.). I still think the Royal Navy, maybe with RAF help even, would have put an end to her fairly early on.
 
That is a possibility...but then the RAF and RN failed to stop the Channel Dash, so whats to say they could have prevented the GZ breaking out? And while she is in harbour, she has the benefit of well-organised fighter and flak defences to cover her against heavy bombers. Stiopping her getting out would be a difficult proposition
 
yes but many german ships were lost trying to break out into the atlantic, there's no reason we couldn't hit the GZ............
 
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