What is your people tolerance like?

GrauGeist · Jul 12, 2013

Readie said:
If no one, except special armed units of Police, carrys firearms then its the same as everyone having fire arms. No one has the advantage....

John

Even if all of the Police were armed that day, the first ones to arrive, did so 5 minutes after the Private was dead. And on top of that, one of his assailents had a revolver in his possesion, which is to the best of my knowledge, illegal to have.

B-17engineer said:
The pilot claimed he was blinded by a 'bright light' no one else saw. Drugs and alcohol can't be tested for because it isn't a US based airline.

Bright light or not, a heavy will "call out" altitude in increments as they descend. He should have heard the "500", "400'', "300", "200", "100" warnings and reacted accordingly. A passenger said that he noticed they were "right on the water" shortly before they struck the approach (San Francisco's runway extends out over the water, the runway extension being a backfill raised above the bay's waters).

Shortround6 · Jul 12, 2013

B-17engineer said:
I'm getting VERY angry at everyone criticizing the emergency response the the Asiana Airlines crash saying they didn't have enough ambulances.....what do you think? they keep 200 ambulances on standby? They did the best they possibly could.

I worked emergency services for 33 years. Nobody wants to pay for crews (men) when nothing is happening but then they want almost instant response and unlimited response when something way out of the "ordinary" happens. Air travel ( and a few other types of travel) would become prohibitively expensive if enough ambulances and emergency equipment were manned/staffed 24/7 at every airport where and incident could occur.
The town I just retired from wanted to cut a paramedic service (paramedics on two pumpers 24/7 in addition to ONE ambulance) to save around 150,000 dollars per year. Town has about 50,000 residents so the cost was about 8 cents a day per person.

The recent train derailment in Bridgeport:

Saw ambulances and fire equipment from several towns away called to the scene and units from towns further away called in to cover the city/towns that sent units to the scene.

Somebody will always bitch after the fact but usually they are the first to bitch about the cost of emergency services if there has not been a recent disaster.

GregP · Jul 12, 2013

I read almost at once that the pilot wasa trainee on the B-777, but it took almost 2 days before we learned he had thousabds of hours in other jets.

I'll wait until the facts are in before speculating since almost any person with thousands of hors in even a Cessna would not fly into the ground without flaring. On the other hand, people tend to do that if they sit in the cockpit way too long. How long was he flying on that flight before the incident?

Matt308 · Jul 12, 2013

B-17engineer said:
The pilot claimed he was blinded by a 'bright light' no one else saw. Drugs and alcohol can't be tested for because it isn't a US based airline.

BS

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 12, 2013

GregP said:
I read almost at once that the pilot wasa trainee on the B-777, but it took almost 2 days before we learned he had thousabds of hours in other jets.

I'll wait until the facts are in before speculating since almost any person with thousands of hors in even a Cessna would not fly into the ground without flaring. On the other hand, people tend to do that if they sit in the cockpit way too long. How long was he flying on that flight before the incident?

He had 9000+ hours in other aircraft including 747's. He had 44 hours in the 777, and was in training. The Instuctor Pilot was a brand new instructor, and was his flight instructing.

Based off of the Flight Data Recorder, at some point the IP realized the aircrafts decent was too slow, and he increased it. He thought the aircrafts speed was slaved to the decent. It was not. At 7 sec. before impact, he resliased they were two low and too slow. At that point he called for more power. At 1.5 he called for a go around. When the nose lifted the acft was at 103 knots instead of the required 137 knots. The lack of speed and nose up attitude caused a stall.

I agree that people should not jump to conclusions, but as an A&P and someone with 1600+ hours of flight experience (granted most as crew only...), it sounds like polot error to me.

GrauGeist · Jul 12, 2013

SFO is notorious for quickly shifting/tricky wind conditions...I wonder if a wind-shear event caused him to lose that 30 knots?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 12, 2013

GrauGeist said:
SFO is notorious for quickly shifting/tricky wind conditions...I wonder if a wind-shear event caused him to lose that 30 knots?

No the crew had the throttles back, atleast according to the FDR.

GrauGeist · Jul 12, 2013

Gotcha

GregP · Jul 12, 2013

Sounds like pilot ewrror to me, too, Adler, but I don;t have the detailed data that you seem to have. Missing your target speed by 34 knots is very stupid.

Maybe it will come out that they had set autothrottles but failed to verify they were working or perhaps they worked until some point when they stopped working. To me, that's the BAD thing about computerized aircraft. Everything is fine until it isn't, and thenm everyone second guesses you. If that is the case, why not simply fly it manually and at least you'd be monitoring it ALL the time instead of havong your attention elsewhere when it malfunctions.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 13, 2013

GregP said:
Sounds like pilot ewrror to me, too, Adler, but I don;t have the detailed data that you seem to have. Missing your target speed by 34 knots is very stupid.

Maybe it will come out that they had set autothrottles but failed to verify they were working or perhaps they worked until some point when they stopped working. To me, that's the BAD thing about computerized aircraft. Everything is fine until it isn't, and thenm everyone second guesses you. If that is the case, why not simply fly it manually and at least you'd be monitoring it ALL the time instead of havong your attention elsewhere when it malfunctions.

I am only going off what the NTSB has reported so far. I too don't have all facts.

My understanding is that the IP thought autothrottle was engaged but it was not.

Readie · Jul 13, 2013

GrauGeist said:
Even if all of the Police were armed that day, the first ones to arrive, did so 5 minutes after the Private was dead. And on top of that, one of his assailents had a revolver in his possesion, which is to the best of my knowledge, illegal to have.

A revolver is illegal here Dave. Its a section 1 firearm and virtually no one can get a licence.

The Police are damned if they don't... and damned if they do

Man shot in terror hunt was innocent young Brazilian | UK news | The Observer

John

Readie · Jul 27, 2013

My people tolerance has improved of late.
And so has my blood pressure...
Are the two related.

Calm down Mr Readie

Yes Doctor

What is your people tolerance like?

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