What was the One Thing that won WWII?

[Lightning Guy]

Several higher-ups in the German authorities knew. There are some fairly credible conspiracy theories that Molders He-111 'accident' was because he knew the truth of, and opposed, several of Hitler's more atrocious practices. And even the German military commited plenty of atrocities. Does the Eastern front sound familiar to anyone? Maybe Malmedy?

 

[plan_D]

The Eastern Front is an excellent example to my point. In 1941 and 1942 the German Army with the German General Staff were cheered in by the Soviet states, and even some Russian towns and villages. They saw them as saviours to the Communist regime.
400,000 Soviets were willing to join the German Army against Stalin. This was, of course, until the Allgemeine-SS with the Einzatscommando got involved and made them slaves, and executed thousands. The German Army being miles in front, and fighting had no time to care what was going on behind them. They were kept in the dark because Hitler made sure of it.

Even then 38th SS-Division was Russian.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I don't think that proves anything necessarily though. The moral odds on the Eastern Front were something like 6-5 and pick 'em. Both sides were guilty of plenty barbaric actions.

 

[plan_D]

The point is, the German Army didn't commit those acts nor did they know about them.

 

[lesofprimus]

Dude u can sit there and say that the Army had no knowledge of the killing and gassing and burning of hundreds of thousands and millions upon millions of Jews....

But u'd be wrong... Thats a secret no leader can hide, no matter how many people he executed to keep it a secret....

 

[johnny]

It could be a secret if it were only a few people, but come on thousands of people being killed daily . Those in command , be it army , airforce or navy, must have had an idea.They just chose to ignore it.

 

[plan_D]

I think you'll find it is. The Germany Army was not at home, it did not come into contact with the Death Camps. They were miles away from home fighting, too busy to care what was going on at home.

Most of them probably didn't even want to know what was going on at home. When on the Eastern Front, do you think that the German soldiers cared that their leader was so anti-Jew? No because they were too busy killing the Soviet soldiers up ahead.

The communication between front and home was not to talk about the home front but to request permission to do jobs. Contact was with the OKH or OKW both of whom had no control or knowledge of the actions of the SS which was a branch in itself.

There's no way of you proving that these men knew. Logically it's more believeable that a man in the middle of the Asian steppes fighting hordes of Soviet troops had no knowledge of what was going on behind him, than him knowing everything.

 

[lesofprimus]

We are talking about General officers here, not the average foot soldier.... Generals frequently made trips back to Berlin.... Conversations happen...

And yes, there is no way to verify this, because no General in his right mind would admit that he knew what was going on, cause it would condemn him along with Hitler and his movement....

"Jews??? Ovens??? Death Camps??? BAH! Absurd..."

 

[plan_D]

The German Generals were mostly on the Front. Those trips back to Berlin were often brief (just a few hours) of which 90% of the time was spent in the presence of Hitler. As Hitler did not respect or even trust the Army he kept them in the dark about everything except what was required.

Obviously some knew but I don't think many of them survived the war. Maybe those part of 20th July plot knew, that's why they planned it. We will never know but I personally believe that most of the German officers were telling the truth when they said they didn't know.

Nuremberg judges seemed to have believed them too.

 

[Lightning Guy]

How about the rape and torture of Russian women? I suppose the German staff officers ran around doing that? Obviously German foot soldiers were responsible for their fair share of such actions.

 

[plan_D]

A few German soldiers may have raped civilian women, but I dare say a few Americans did it too. The Soviets were cheering them in, in places so its pretty obvious the German soldiers weren't too bad. Especially when 400,000 Soviets offer to join the German army.

The Russians were much worse than the Germans. Since they won, they will not be judged. In fact even the Einzatskommando were disgusted by the actions of the Ukrainians they sent in to put down the Warsaw uprising.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

is it true that some SS officers went to a hide out and were planning to go to south america and continue natzism.................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Several theories about the exist. Several U-Boats did set sail with the intention of reaching South America but most (if not all of them) ended up surrendering. The name I have heard mentioned most often is Martin Borman.

 

[plan_D]

Actually a lot of SS and German officers reached South America. There was/is a German hotel in the Andies Mountains which many went to. Some say Hitler went there...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I would have to say that the Battle of Atlantic, Stalingrad, and the fact that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. If the Germans had been able to control the north atlantic then much needed supplies would never have gotten to England. If HItler had not made the mistake to turn away from Moscow and head to Stalingrad either out of pride or the fact that it was named after Stalin Russia would have fallen and then it would have been a 1 front war again. And if the Japs had not pissed off the US it would have just been Germany versus England, and lets face it at the time it would have taken a miracle for England to stop the Germany wehrmacht. I think everything happened the way it was supposed to and turned out for the best.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Not everything though; some things just werent needed, like the holocaust

 

[johnny]

The only thing in my mind that cost the krauts the war was the cancellation of Operation Sealion.Had Britain been invaded there would have been no Battle of the Atlantic and a lot more troops available for the ilfated Operation Barberossa.What might have helped was if the Japs had not taken on the yanks but had rather attacked the commies.I almost doubt that the end result of WW2 would have been changed though.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

lets face it at the time it would have taken a miracle for England to stop the Germany wehrmacht

most say it would have been a miracle for the RAF to beat the luftwaffe in 1940, but we did, and after nearly a thousand years without being successfully invaded, we've taken something of a disliking towards being invaded, we wouldn't sit back and let it happen in the same way the japs were sitting in their huts sharpening bamboo to fight off the yanks....

 

[cheddar cheese]

If the entire German army invaded us in 1940 we would have been buggered...Britain werent - and arent invincible, lanc.

 

[johnny]

As Winston said "we will fight on the beaches , landing grounds and in the air , we will never surrender". Gotta love him.