What would you change?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by carpenoctem1689, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. carpenoctem1689

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    Given the Luftwaffes aircraft and supplies, in lets say, late 1942, early 1943, how would you have differently employed your forces, and what would you have done in the ways of development techniques, or production of existing or waiting aircaft?

    Ill get around to posting what i would have done, after purusing around my imagination a while, feel free to use yours.
     
  2. Dac

    Dac Member

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    I would have shifted priority to fighter production in 1942 and started phasing out older designs like the Bf109, Bf110, He111, and Ju87 in favor of newer designs. The emphasis would definetly be on fighter production though.

    I can see no sense in a fighter-bomber version of the Me262 while there was so much pressure on Germany from the bomber offense. I would have put a priority on getting an inteceptor version of the Me262 operational as soon as possible, 1943 preferably.

    As for deploying forces, Homeland defence would be #1, followed by the Eastern Front then the Med theatre.

    I think Hitler only put priority on bomber production for so long for political reasons. He'd created a myth of himself as a unstoppable force and offically going on the defence would have threatened that.
     
  3. RAGMAN

    RAGMAN Member

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    I would have given the HE 280 a greenlight for production as I have read and seen info that it was at least even or better than the ME 262. I would have dumped the ME 210 as that was a disaster seeing that 1000 was ordered right off the drawing board. I also would have given the HE 177 a chance to just be a level bomber and not be plagued by multi roles that hindered it.(although the engines tended to overheat and sometimes catch fire)I don't know if you can update the JU 87 but I always wondered if the Luftwaffe had gave it a bigger engine, had retractable landing gear and better armourment it would have have had a newer lease on life.And also developement of a longer range fighter would not have been a bad idea either. :?:
     
  4. Piaggio108

    Piaggio108 Member

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    Given knowlege of what happened, I would say switching production to fighters would be the obvious choice. Also, I say give the experienced designers the ability to design anything they wanted. Just look at the He-219, He-177, Me-262 that were forced to accept uresnable requirements.

    He-280 had horible fuel consumption. As for the Me-210, Messerschmitt was experienced, they trusted him to produce something good. It was stupid to order that many without seeing how it worked. He-177 should have been developed into the He-277 more quickly. Yea, I've always wondered what would have happened if someone had developed a dive-bomber that would be fast enought to avoid interception but able to dive slowly enough to match the Ju-87 for accuracy. It would need a lot of dive flaps to avoid going to fast, but it could have been very good. Any thoughts?
     
  5. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Active Member

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    After failing to stop the British in the Western desert, not getting to Moscow, and sticking my hand in the meat grinder of Stalingrad and watching the USA enter the conflict, I'd realise that the War was over. I would then proceed to have Messers Messerschmidt and Tank to design a 6 engined, very-long range transport, grab the remains of the treasury and fly myself into a non-extradition country where gold goes a long way and drinks are cheap....
     
  6. MacArther

    MacArther Active Member

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    For the allied side, I would have taken charge and issued the B17-G asap, maybe before it was even on the drawing board. Secondly, the B25-H would have been great against the German armor and fortifications following Torch and D-Day landings (were they used? can't find any records). As for Germany, GET THE BF109 K and BF190 D and the 262 and you cant fail
     
  7. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    The first low level raids on Europe using A20's and B26's were disasters. The German low level defenses were deadly to low flying medium bombers.
     
  8. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    There are a couple of exceptions, but for the most part B-25s were used in the Pacific and B-26s in Europe.
     
  9. Dac

    Dac Member

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    Maybe that's what the Ju390 was built for.
     
  10. MacArther

    MacArther Active Member

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    HELLO! I said in 1944, that way the advancing troops would have some defense against the German Heavy tanks. And can you picture how small the casualties would have been on D-Day if we had the B-25 H go slam the positions with bombs AND 75mm rounds?
     
  11. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    The German flak was deadly by that time of the war. I think the B25's would have been blasted from the sky. Thats why the 9th and 12th AF had their mediums fly at middle altitudes.
     
  12. Dac

    Dac Member

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    The B-25 wasn't that successful where it was deployed, in the Pacific. The 75mm could do a lot of damage when it hit the target, but that wasn't always easy. It was a slow firing weapon and by the time you saw your fall of shot it was probably too late to get another one off.
     
  13. schwarzpanzer

    schwarzpanzer Member

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    I would have done what Rommel said and given up on all bombers, the exeptions being...

    The Ju87 Stuka, developed retractable landing gear and a DB605 engine like RAGMAN suggested, also the 2x 37mm cannons.

    But I would use them (if they could reach that altitude?) to brak up B17 formations with Flak ammo.

    The abondoned Ju87's from the Graf Zeppelin would be best suited for this task.

    I would do the same for the Ju88 with it's 75mm baby.

    I would forget the Sturmvogel (not the Schwalbe) and demand instant upgrading of the Me163 to Me263(?) spec.
     
  14. carpenoctem1689

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    I would have cut the 109 production slowly, winding it down, and winding up the production of the fw-190 and the variants as they were produced, putting more effort into higher altitude aircraft, conversions or new builds, for interception, and recon, even though the 262, and Ar.234 would serve well in this role later in the war. The production of the Ju-87 would be halted immeadiatly, and that of future dive bombers, seeing how the Fw-190 ground attack variants could do the job just as well, and then become fighters after delivering payload. The He-111 was becoming severely outdated, and needed many modifications, or a new airctaft all together to take its place. Slowly winding down production of the Ju-88 and the He-111, i would step up prodduction of the Bf-110, for night fighting duties as an interim solution. For the role of heavy bombers, i would realize that industry could not produce sufficient aicraft in time, and abandone that concept. Instead focusing the small, limited bomber production on the Do-217 with uprated engines, making it faster, and lengthening the fueslage and adding a tail gunner, not those crappy remote barbettes. Of course working through prototypes and such, but trying one last time for a somewhat decent attack/bomber. Mainly for anti-shipping purposes. Using more widely later in the war the X-bombs for anti shipping....Just some of the ideas that i would implement. any thoughts on my actions?
     
  15. carpenoctem1689

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    Stukas would be able to reach that altitude with a DB-605 engine, but they would still be slow, ungainly, and the 37mm cannons couldnt carry enough ammunition for the role. They could carry 12 rounds each, the Ju-87 carrying two cannons, but the aircraft would still be slow, have limitied manoueverabilty, and armor, and not a very long range. This is the first time ive ever heard of the stuka being used as an interceptor. The 110, or other aircraft, like the Ju-88, or the D0-217 could probably be adapted to carry the 37mm cannon. So the Ju-87 is an unlikely candidate for being any use up with the heavies. and just imagine what would happen later in the war. when a squadron of stukas would be caught by escorting P-51's..would have been a nasty surprise.
     
  16. schwarzpanzer

    schwarzpanzer Member

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    Hi carpenoctem1689,

    Funny I had a similar conversation/thoughts before, deja-vu!

    I think the Me109 still had a lot going for it in '45, though I'm not sure?

    What you say on the 262, AR234 and FW190 are my thoughts exactly.

    The He-111 would be excellent against massed armour in the East, was it actually used this way?

    I would replace the X-bomb for the Hs234, but these were susceptible to counter-measures however...

    I wondered of the Ju88, but only 'cos of its - 75mm cannon! :twisted:

    I thought though that the Ju88 would be an even easier target than the Stuka?

    Still that 75mm is going to put a pretty big hole in a ship, but is unecessary for anti-tank work?

    BTW I'd have bigger wings, think the carrier-borne Stukas had these?

    It's why the Me109T was good for high-altitude work.

    The tactic would be to basically be an airborne Flak battery, nothing more.

    This could use bomber planes/pilots, freeing up some Me-262's...
     
  17. Udet

    Udet Banned

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    Instead of using the materials, parts and laborforce devoted to produce the few thousands of Me 210s and Me 410s (although the former made a very capable fighter), I see all such resources commited to produce a few thousands of Dorniers Do 335s.

    What about an entire Zerstörergeschwader of Do 335s (full strenght) say, during mid 1944? Four gruppen.

    I see the massive, and lethally fast and manouverable "Pfeil" bouncing the swarms of P-51s and P-47s, slicing them the way a knife works its way through butter.

    Once the "Pfeil" processes the USAAF fighters, unleash the Sturmböck!
     
  18. carpenoctem1689

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    The only reason i would slow the production og the 109 would be because it would lose manoeverabilty at high speeds, which were becoming needed at the war progressed, where the 190 could better handle that.
     
  19. RAGMAN

    RAGMAN Member

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    I forgot all about the DO335! On the Wings series about the ME 110,210,410 Destroyer series they mentioned that it was the fastest piston plane to fly. Anyone know how agile the plane was? :?:
     
  20. carpenoctem1689

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    I doubt it would have been extremely agile, considering the speeds at which it would operate, probaby about 2/3s of that of the Ta-152H. But that is just an assumption of mine. The Do-335 would have been one hell of an opponent for anyone who came up against it. Would pose a serious threat from mustangs and jugs, to meteors and b-17s.
     
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