Which countries would you like to see...

Discussion in 'Polls' started by GermansRGeniuses, Jan 9, 2005.

?

What country would you like to see aces from?

  1. Deutschland

    22.2%
  2. Japan

    11.1%
  3. Frankreich

    11.1%
  4. Russland

    22.2%
  5. Gross Britanien

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Die Staaten Von Amerika

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Finnland

    11.1%
  8. Other (State Which)

    22.2%
  1. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    in a best fighter pilot thread?



    Feel free to leave suggestions, but only stating which countries is fine...


    (We'll see which country has the most votes and thus the most choices...)
     
  2. Medvedya

    Medvedya Active Member

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    Urmm, you would have to have German and Russian aces in there wouldn't you?

    It would be a bit like leaving Brazil out of a 'Greatest Footballing Nations' poll.
     
  3. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    Like I said, the country that gets the most votes gets the most choices, thus the reason for the obvious being up... ;)
     
  4. Darkstalker

    Darkstalker New Member

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    I think Germany will be on the lead
     
  5. kiwimac

    kiwimac Active Member

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    What! No Albanian option??????

    Kiwimac
     
  6. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    That's why Others is there...


    Vote for it, leave a suggestion for country and pilot, and we'll see what we can do!
     
  7. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

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    I'm assuming Gross Britanien includes the Commonwealth countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc, etc...) ? ;)
     
  8. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    Hmm...



    Seeing as how they WERE part of the U.K. at some time, I'd have to say yes...


    Make sure you leave a suggestion, or else it will be assumed you mean England...
     
  9. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    I would say US, UK, Japan and Germany. Those are the main ones I think of. I know there were probably aces from other places like Russia and Italy, I just don't know much about them.
     
  10. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    While this is great, it really doesnt affect the greatest ace poll... People who deserve to be on this list are..... The most eligible....

    There are not alot of people that know alot about aces... I consider myself one who knows a good deal.... There are a few others that may know more, but the majority know alot about planes and little on pilots....

    I can only list 15 pilots... It makes it very difficult.... Just because a certain pilot is ur favorite, doesnt make him the Greatest..... REMEMBER THIS.....

    Educate yourselves with the names on the poll.... Do a search on the name... Everyone of them will have 25 links for them.... Read alittle if ur unsure..... Then make ur vote.....

    Its interesting to see that Hans-Joachim was almost tied with Herr Hartmann..... I think if more people knew about certain people on this poll, the tallies would vary more....

    Im going to make the new poll with the listed pilots in the other thread... I think I have everyone covered one way or another.....
     
  11. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

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    Never part of the UK, part of the Commonwealth. ;)

    That is, countries that were dominions of the British Empire but were self-governing. The United Kingdom refers to Great Britain (England, Scotland, and Wales) plus Northern Ireland.



    And that's my sticky point for the evening! :lol:
     
  12. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

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    Les, if you want to take George Beurling off the list, go ahead. Most people here probably don't have a clue who he was anyway, and if it's just going to make it that much more confusing then it's probably not worth it.

    I only suggested the name because he was Canada's leading ace, but how many Canadians generally post here anyway? A few. Like you say, there were many more deserving pilots who should probably be listed, and just because someone is your favorite it doesn't necessarily make him the best.
     
  13. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    OK...... Thats cool, glad u see it my kinda way....
     
  14. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    How about this?

    Jochen
    Bader
    Galland
    Bong
    Kozhedub
    Hartmann
    McGuire
    Gabby
    Notwony
    Sakai
    Eino Juutilainen (94.5 kills, 34 in Buffalos)
    Beurling
    Pips
    Molders
    Wolfgang Falck (Or some other NF pilot, I don't know many...)



    How about that?
     
  15. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    You make a good point, Les. I know alot about airplanes, but my knowledge of aces is pretty weak. Sure, I know names like Dick Bong, mcGuire, McCampbell and a few others. I had heard of guys like Molders ,sp?. and Galland. It was only since I have been here that I have heard more of the other aces. I think having the names in the polls gives us all an opportunity to learn more.

    Funny how alot of emphasis goes into fighter pilots, which is deserved, don;t get me wrong. But rarely do people hear names of bomber crews, outside of the pilots. Everyone knows names like Paul Tibbetts and Jimmy Doolittle. Sorry, just an observation.

    I would be curious if there are known German bomber crews that survived a ton of missions. Did they stay together as a cohesive crew like the Americans mostly did? Sorry I am off topic.
     
  16. kiwimac

    kiwimac Active Member

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    There was the Japanese ace with 100 kills whose name I have forgotten.

    Kiwimac
     
  17. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Actually the highest scoring Japanese ace is Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, credited with 87 official confirmed victories.....

    Here is my file on japanese aces.... Most reference the 87 as the correct score... There was no such thing as record keeping for the latter years of the war....

    Imperial Japanese Army Air Force
    1/ Hiromichi Shinohara / 58 / All in Manchuria
    2 / Satoshi Anabuki / 51
    3 / Sumi Kamito / 40
    4 / Isamu Sasaki / 38
    5 / Mitsuyoshi Tarui / 38, (incl. 28 in Manchuria)
    6 / Isame Kashide / 32
    7 / Sada Koga / 31
    8 / Yasuhiko Kuroe / 30
    9 / Shogo Takeuchi / 30
    note that most JAAF high scorers fought in the Nomonhan border war with Russia in 1939, which compares interestingly with the huge scores attributed to Finnish Brewsters in their 1941-44 border war on the Russian's western front.


    Imperial Japanese Navy Air Force
    1 / Hiroyoshi Nishizawa / 87
    2 / Tetsuzo Iwamoto / 80
    3 / Shigeo Fukumoto 72
    4 / Shoichi Sugita / 70
    5 / Saburo Sakai / 64
    6 / Takeo Okumura / 50
    7 / Toshio Ota / 34
    8 / Kazuo Sugino / 32


    Japanese Aces AllTime

    Nishizawa 87 (87 of 184 claimed confirmed)
    Iwamoto 80 (64 of 202 claimed confirmed)
    Sugita 70 (70 of 120 claimed confirmed)
    Sakai 64
    Shinohara 58
    Anabuki 51 (39 of 96 claimed confirmed)
    Okumura 50 (50 of 84 claimed confirmed)
    Sasaki 38
    Tarui 38
    Ota 34
    Sugino 32
    Kashide 32
    Kuroe 30
    Takeuchi 30

    Japanese Aces
    Hiroyoshi Nishizawa 87
    Tetsuzo Iwamoto 80
    Shoychi Sugita 70
    Saburo Sakai 64
    Hiromishi Shinohara 58
    Satoshi Anabuki 51
    Takeo Okumura 50
    Isamu Sasaki 38
    Micuyoshi Tarui+ 38
    Toshiyo Ota 34
    Kazuo Sugino 32
    Yashiki Kuroe 30
    Shizuko Ishi 29
    Kaneyoshi Muto 28
    Chiyoshi Saito 28
    Kenji Shimada 28
    Sadaaki Akamatsu 27
    Isamu Hosono 27
    Yunishi Sasai 27
    Rikia Shibata 27
    Goychi Sumino 27
    Moricugu Kanai 26
    Hidenori Macunaga 26
    Shogo Saito 26
    Goro Furugori 25


    Claimed Kills vs Verified

    Tetsuzo Iwamoto 202 - 64
    Hiroyoshi Nishizawa 174 - 187 (104 confirmed?)
    Shoichi Sugita 120 -70
    Takeo Okumura 98 -50
    Satoshi Anabuki 96-39
    Mitsuyoshi Tarui 76-10
    Tadashi Nakajima 75
    Isamu Sasaki 75-32
    Shigeo Fukumoto 72
    Toshio Ota (Devil of Rabaul) 68-34
    Saburo Sakai 64
    Kazuo Sugino 64-32
    Yasuhiko Kuroe 60-28
    Junichi Sasai 60-27
    Hiromishi Shinohara 58
    Sadaaki Akamatsu 54-16
    Naoishi Kanno 53-25
    Goro Furugori 50-25
    Kenji Okabe 50-15


    Lt(jg) Tetsuzo Iwamoto 202
    CPO Shoichi Sugita 120+
    WO Hiroyoshi Nishizawa 87
    WO Shigeo Fukumoto 72
    Ens Saburo Sakai 60+
    Lt(jg) Junichi Sasai 54
    CPO Takeo Okumura 50
    Ens Kenji Okabe 50
    Lt Naoshi Kanno 48
    WO Ryoji Ohara 48
    Lt Cdr Iyozoh Fujita 42
    WO Sadamu Komachi 40
    Ens Kaneyoshi Muto 35
    PO1/c Toshio Ota 34
    WO Kazuo Sugino 32
    WO Takeo Tanimizu 32
    Ens Susumu Ishihara 30+
    CPO Shizuo Ishii 28
    Lt(jg) Sadaaki Akamatsu 27
    WO Nobuo Ogiya 24
    CPO Yoshimi Hidaka 20
    Lt(jg) Shigeo Sugio 20

    Officially Recognized:
    Nishizawa = 87
    Iwamoto = 80+
    Sakai = 64
    Sugita = 30+
    Source: Japanese Fighter Aces and Fightere Units - Pages 239 thru 243




    nishizawa 87
    shigeo fukumoto 72
    sho-ichi sugita 70
    iwamoto 66
    sakai 62
    takeo okumura 50
    yoshihiko nakada 45
    sumi kamito 40 +
    anabuki 39
    toshio ota 34
    morichiki kamae 32 (moritsugo kanai???)
    isamu sasaki 32
    kazuo sugino 32
    goro Furogori 30 (+20 in china???)

    Tetsuzo Iwamoto 202 Mitsubishi Zero
    Hiroyoshi Nishizawa 174 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)
    Shoichi Sugita 120 Mitsubishi Zero
    Takeo Okumura 98 Mitsubishi Zero
    Satoshi Anabuki 96 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)
    Mitsuyoshi Tarui 76 Mitsubishi Zero
    Isamu Sasaki 75 Mitsubishi A6M2
    Shigeo Fukumoto 72 Mitsubishi Zero
    Inyo Endo 69 Mitsubishi A6M2
    Toshio Ota 68 Mitsubishi Zero
    Saburo Sakai 64 Mitsubishi Zero
    Kazuo Sugino 64 Mitsubishi A6M2
    Yasuhiko Kuroe 60 Mitsubishi Zero
    Junichi Sasai 60 Mitsubishi A6M2
    Hiromishi Shinohara 58 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)
    Sadaaki Akamatsu 54 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)
    Goro Furugori 50 Mitsubishi A6M2
    Kenji Okabe 50 Mitsubishi Zero
    Naoshi Kanno 48 "Tony"
    Ryoji Ohara 48 Mitsubishi Zero
    Yoshihiko Nakada 45Mitsubishi Zero
    Yohei (johei) Hinoki 45 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)
    Iyozo Fujita 42 "Tony"
    Sumi Kamito 40 Mitsubishi Zero
    Sadamu Komachi 40 Mitsubishi Zero (carrier)

    Japanese Fighter Aces

    Name Kills
    Hirojoshi Nishizawa 87
    Shigeo Fukumoto 72
    Sho-ichi Sugita 70
    Tecuzo Iwamoto 66
    Saburo Sakai 64
    Horimichi Shinohara 58
    Takeo Okumura 54
    Satoshi Anabuki 51
    Johei Hinoki 45
    Yoshihiko Nakada 45
    Sumi Kamito 40
    Micuyoshi Tarui 38
    Isamu Sasaki 37
    Toshio Ota 34
    Kazuo Sugino 32
    Sada Koga 31
    Yasuhiro Kuroe 30
    Shizuo Ishii 29
    Takeyoshi Muto 28
    Chiyoshi Saito 28
    Sada-aki Akamacu 27
    Isamu Hosono 27
    Jun-ichi Sasai 27
    Rikio Shibata 27
    Kenji Shimada 27
    Goychi Sumino 27
    Moritsugu Kanai 26
    Isamu Kashiide 26
    Takaji Kimura 26
    Hidenori Matsunaga 26
    Goro Miyamoto 26
    Shogo Saito 26
    Goro Furugori 25
    Tomio Hanada 25
    Tokuyasu Ishizuka 25
    Naoshi Kanno 25
     
  18. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Getting solid numbers on Japanese aces is difficult as there is a reliance on logs and memories of the pilots. Keeping a score was against Japanese military policy as they felt that it took away from unit cohesion and favored pilots with more kills. But I think that 87 for Nishizawa is generally accepted by historians. The numbers will vary depending on the source you look at. Nishizawa is also generally accepted as the highest scoring ace of Japan.
     
  19. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

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    The class system in place in Japan also hurt the record keeping. Lower-class pilots generally were not recognized.
     
  20. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    That is also true, LG.
     
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