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Not quite. The US in the NA/Med theatre had to use the P-40F as their main air superiority fighter as they had little else available. When they got Spitfire Vs, they used those for air superiority and interceptions rather than P-40Fs.
The majority of P-40F combats were at low and medium altitudes, with a lot combats being against mediocre to fair opponents.
And yet it was in heavy use in 1944, long after they had retired the Hurricane from front line duties even as a bomber.There is simply no way anyone would have considered the P-40F the best option for any role by 1944.
In May 1943, three Typhoons were tested in Egypt with 451Sq RAAF, an experienced Hurricane IIc unit. As far as I know, those were the only Typhoons to operate outside the European Theatre. In the RAF's main theatre in the Far East (India/Burma) the incidences of land-based air combat were becoming so rare for the RAF by mid-1943, that they decided they already had enough Spitfires, and kept the Hurricane IIs for ground-attack. This was to simplify the logistics and maintenance picture. When they reconsidered with Tiger Force towards the very end of the War, the Tempest was already replacing the Typhoon.
I have no information on what else they did but according the manuals they changed the order they used the fuel in.Apologies if this was already discussed ad nauseum, but how was the different weight of the two engines addressed in this case?
I think the Merlin is about 300 lbs. heavier than the Allison, so what did they do to counter act that, or was any change necessary?
Elvis
Where in the Med were they desperately needed? The Axis powers surrendered in Tunisia in May 1943?They seemed to have failed the test which is why they continued to sit in England instead of being deployed in the Med where they were badly needed (especially if they were ostensibly better than the P-40s which were being so heavily relied on both for fighters and fighter bombers)
Apologies if this was already discussed ad nauseum, but how was the different weight of the two engines addressed in this case?
I think the Merlin is about 300 lbs. heavier than the Allison, so what did they do to counter act that, or was any change necessary?
Elvis
The Merlin XX was about 75-100lb heavier than the V-1710.
The Merlin that was ~300lb heavier was the 60-series two stage versions.
Where in the Med were they desperately needed? The Axis powers surrendered in Tunisia in May 1943?
I have to agree with Shortround6.
According to EngineHistory.org.'s charts, the V1650-1 Packard Merlin used in the F/L scaled out at 1520 lbs.
The V1710-33 used in P40's B, C, E & G scaled out at 1340 lbs.
P40-E also used the -39 Allison variant which scaled out at 1310 lbs.
So if you average the two Allison engines to 1325 lbs., that still makes them 195 lbs, lighter than the Merlin.
I guess not as much difference as I remembered, but I remember a very generalized stat, too.
Interesting how they simply changed how they used the on-board fuel to balance the difference in weight.
Those boys were thinkin', that's for sure.
Elvis
for some reason the Packard Merlin was heavier than the British XX series. I don't know if it was the basic engine itself or some of the accessories? perhap only 60-70lbs but then I believe it needed a larger radiator and oil cooler?
OK, looked in Dean's AHT, and the Merlin went about 1518-1523 lbs (and a bit of production tolerance) while the Allisons went about 1307-1340lbs depending on Version.
Some of the other weights bounce around bit , like engine section, eng Accessories, Controls, starting and cooling and oil systems, the cooling systems did NOT actually vary that much, 305-306lbs for the Merlin and 294lbs for the Allison.
I haven't checked all the different models listed but the power plant (as opposed to just the engine) might have been nearly 300lbs depending on exact model?
They needed all the help they could get invading Italy. Anzio was a close run thing or weren't you aware?
Prior to that official test in 1943 Typhoons (or any purportedly superior aircraft) were even more badly needed as the Desert Air Force was suffering heavy casualties, especially before the arrival of the Americans with all the extra kit and manpower. However if the Typhoon was indeed suitable and deemed effective I would think they would have deployed at least some squadrons since allegedly (per the comments in this thread) they were not seeing a lot of action in England. Or were they? Which is it?
The intake on the various merlin mks is located on the underside of the engine/fuselage, in a position that would ingest a lot more dust than an intake on the top of the engine/fuselage as on most allisons. The volkes filter on the Hurricane adds very little to the frontal area and only cost about 5-7 mph in top speed. The Assembly on the Spit V was much larger and clumsier looking but I believe it also housed a larger glycol header tank and/or oil tank, for additional cooling.
A few points, By the end of April, beginning of May 1943 there were only about 1200 Typhoons built, and that is from Sept of 1941. Of those about 700 were built from Sept of 1942 to May of 1943. early deployment of the Typhoon to other theaters may have been governed by availability rather than any special needs or out of the ordinary faults of the aircraft.
Anzio is a red herring. By Jan 1944 the Typhoon was both not the only game in town for a fighter bomber or air superiority aircraft.
In April of 1944 P-51Bs start operating in Italy, (Wiki says that the Anzio operation lasted until June 5th) The 57th fighter group in Italy got P-47s in Jan 1944 to replace their P-40s, a 2nd group, the 79th starts requiping in March.
I don't know when the P-38 groups in Italy started getting the newer P-38s. But the P-38J went into production in Sept of 1943.
Typhoon IB Performance Data Scroll down to AAEE test at Boscombe Down dated 31/7/43. Sea level speed increases from 343 to 357 mph from 1942 to 1943. So how much speed is lost if you have a tropical filter.
P-39 Performance Tests Scroll down to P-39N-1 test dated 17/10/42. Speed at 2700 feet is 358 mph. considering the air intake is above and behind the pilot, no doubt little speed would be lost by a dust filter.
I doubt that there would be little or any speed difference between the 2 fighters below 10000 feet. You could sling a large drop tank below the Cobra, so if you just want to patrol to intercept incoming Fw 190 fighter bombers, my guess is that the Cobra could overhaul one, if the Fw 190 dropped its bombs and used MW 50 then it could escape. You don't need the Typhoon in the Med in 1942/43 if you have the Cobra which would probably have a longer patrol time.
The RAF in particular could have really used some Typhoons, if they were truly viable, in the second half of 1942 and early 1943.
My main question is, was the Typhoon in a similar "not really ready for prime time" situation vis a vis the Med in 1942-1944, either due to mechanical difficulties or fighting limitations or both.
That's the problem - there weren't enough Typhoons to service the ETO and the Med at that time.
Or production.