Which is the better fighter, P-40F or Typhoon?

Schweik said:

Did you notice this part:

"Apparently the Ju-88C was among other things, a P-40 killer! Maybe it's time to start another thread Lol: "

You know what Lol stands for right? Doesn't anyone around here have a sense of humor?

You get outlier incidents like this, sometimes due to special circumstances. I did mention Ju 88s shot down some P-38s once. Someone else mentioned Avro Ansons allegedly shooting down Bf 109s. Does that mean the Anson is a "Bf 109 killer"? Well if those claims could be validated (big if), in the most technical sense yes, but not really if it wasn't consistent.

Ju 88 could have caught a Kittyhawk with battle damage, or almost out of gas, or with an injured pilot, or just got lucky on the first surprise pass and did some damage that affected a subsequent dogfight. Or maybe attacking a Kittyhawk when you have superior E in a Ju 88C is sufficient to give you a chance... or maybe it's an unbsubstantiated claim like so many of them were.

I'll look it up in Shores though he does mention the pilots name so it won't be hard to check.

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There is a phrase I sometimes use at work ' One Swallow does not a Summer make'. In this area 'A few kills does not a killer make'.

I think I am right in the following.
The first 109 was shot down by the RAF was destroyed by a Battle.
A Ju52 was credited with two kills in the invasion of Norway
One of the first He111's shot down by the RAF was claimed by a Lysander
A Wirriway shot down a Zero
An Anson did shoot down a 109

There are endless examples but no one would claim these victories made the aircraft a Killer

Point to note, the P-40 was very much a second dickie aircraft in RAF service and the squadrons operating it didn't get the best pilots.
Much is made of the high scores by experten like Marseille in the Mediterranean theatre, but many of the pilots he was facing were second rate in second rate aircraft by that point in the war.

In the hands of a skilled pilot, the P-40 was still a very worthy adversary right into 1944.

LOL. You are about to set upon by "experts"

Macandy said:

Point to note, the P-40 was very much a second dickie aircraft in RAF service and the squadrons operating it didn't get the best pilots.
Much is made of the high scores by experten like Marseille in the Mediterranean theatre, but many of the pilots he was facing were second rate in second rate aircraft by that point in the war.

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In all, 18 Royal Air Force (RAF) squadrons, four Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), three South African Air Force (SAAF) and two Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) squadrons serving with RAF formations, used P-40s. That is a boatload of substandard pilots, can you explain how they were selected?

pbehn said:

In all, 18 Royal Air Force (RAF) squadrons, four Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), three South African Air Force (SAAF) and two Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) squadrons serving with RAF formations, used P-40s. That is a boatload of substandard pilots, can you explain how they were selected?

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Perhaps Fairey Battle pilots

Glider said:

Over the UK possibly but the main thrust of the air war in Europe change to the UK attacking France and Hurricane were rarely used in that role. As pointed out by Stig claims dropped to a trickle because the RAF knew the Hurricane wasn't up to fighting over German held area's

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They used them as close escort for Blenheim's and Hurribombers.

Odd that Neville Duke would be called a second class pilot

Kevin J said:

Perhaps Fairey Battle pilots

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Battle's were bombers the pilots who survived moved onto other bombers.

pbehn said:

Battle's were bombers the pilots who survived moved onto other bombers.

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Shame. I'd have thought they'd be ideal.

fubar57 said:

Odd that Neville Duke would be called a second class pilot

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Obviously posted to the wrong outfit by mistake, the RAF couldn't even do incompetence correctly.

Kevin J said:

Shame. I'd have thought they'd be ideal.

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As far as I know even in the worst point of the BoB that wasn't considered.

pbehn said:

As far as I know even in the worst point of the BoB that wasn't considered.

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It was but they only let a handful go.

Kevin J said:

It was but they only let a handful go.

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Did they make it to be serving fighter pilots?

pbehn said:

Did they make it to be serving fighter pilots?

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Yes. Just 5 in BoB

Kevin J said:

Yes. Just 5 in BoB

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From how many transferred retrained?

Glider said:

There is a phrase I sometimes use at work ' One Swallow does not a Summer make'. In this area 'A few kills does not a killer make'.

I think I am right in the following.
The first 109 was shot down by the RAF was destroyed by a Battle.
A Ju52 was credited with two kills in the invasion of Norway
One of the first He111's shot down by the RAF was claimed by a Lysander
A Wirriway shot down a Zero
An Anson did shoot down a 109

There are endless examples but no one would claim these victories made the aircraft a Killer

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Some of you people are very lacking in reading comprehension or a grasp of irony.

First, for the ironically challenged, I did not mean that it was a 'P-40 killer' literally. It's rather ironic, speak of, that the same people who accuse me of being a P-40 fanboy now seem to get animated about the idea that I'm placing the Ju 88 above it.

So for the record, I am not. I do not think a Ju 88 can routinely handle a Kittyhawk under normal circumstances, any more than a Battle can handle a Bf 109 - however, I do think that a Ju 88 was a much more capable air to air combat combat aircraft than a Battle, a Ju 52, an He 111, a Lysander, a Wirraway or an Anson put together. And it was a fairly dangerous opponent way out to sea where one rarely found the single-engined fighters.

My understanding is that in the early war in the RAF, the best qualified pilots got sent to fly bombers, and quite a few died flying Battles and Blenheims early in the war.

As for Commonwealth / RAF Aces in the Med, Pacific or CBI, here is a few more who flew the P-40 specifically:

Name / Total / Total in a P-40 (if available) / Nation / note
Neville Duke / 27 / / UK / (8-10 in KIttyhawk and Tomahawk)
Clive Caldwell / 26 / 20 / Aus/
Billy Drake / 24.5 / 13 / UK/
James Francis "Stocky" Edwards / 19 / 12 / Can/
R J C Whittle / 11 / 11 / Aus/
Keith Truscott / 17 / / Aus/
John Lloyd Waddy / 15 / 11 / Aus / (first 12 kills in P-40, fought in Spitfires as well)
Andrew "Nicky" Barr / 12.5 / / Aus/
Peter Turnbill / 12 / / Aus / (5 kills on P-40 in Med, 3 kills in Pacific)
Geoff Fiskin / 11 / / NZ/
Bobby Gibbes / 10.5 / / Aus/
N Bowker / 10 / 9 / UK/
D W Golding / 8 / 8 / SA/
E C Saville / 8 / 8 / SA/
J E Frost / 14 / 7 / SA/
M S Hards / 7 / 7 / UK/
A C Bosman / 8 / 6 / SA/
A C Cameron / 6 / 6 / Aus/
O V "Pedro" Hanbury / 10 / 6 / UK/
R M Leu / 6 / 6 / UK/
Wilfred Arthur / 10 / / Aus / (4 kills in one sortie in Med, also fought in Pacific)
S/Ldr Leslie Douglas / 7.5 / / Aus / (Port Morseby and Milne Bay, all victories P-40)

I think the old canard about 2nd rate pilots or crew getting sent to those Theaters is a way to cover up for other types of neglect or poor leadership which did take place in them.

fubar57 said:

LOL. You are about to set upon by "experts" View attachment 543899

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You should be alright, no threat from the "experts" so long as you don't stray from established narratives.... but you might get sniped at from the sidelines if you do.

Schweik said:

My understanding is that in the early war in the RAF, the best qualified pilots got sent to fly bombers, and quite a few died flying Battles and Blenheims early in the war.
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Early in the war the manning selection and training was obviously from before the war started.

LMAO!!!!!!