Which modern nation has highest potential in aerospace?

[davparlr]

Comment on this discussion

1. Stealth will be a surpreme advantage for the F-22 and F-35. You can forget that sparrow stuff (I suspect that is large by todays stealth technology). Anyway, it will take a POWERFUL radar to find a sparrow, even going 600 kts., before it could launch an AMRAAM up your butt or even a sidwinder, a radar that probably won't be available on fighters for 20 years. I predict that all fighters presently flying will be made second rate due to stealth when these two planes become operational. Its just too hard to spar with an invisible boxer.

2. I suspect the F-22 has a higher stealth level than that of the F-35 and thus will be more effective in that realm. Roles will be similar to the present F-15/F-16. The F-35 will be MUCH cheaper (including the European competition but not Russian) and I suspect there will be an international sales version made available to F-16 customers.

3. Dogfighting capability will not be important in future combat. Paramount will be detection, identification, designation, launch, destruction. This is the kill chain. Manueverability will reside between the launch and destruction link.

4. Political and cost ramifications of personnel in the war space, especially captured troops, is too high. All effort will be to get them out. Autonomous and semi-autonomous UAVs will be soon prevalent (20 years). Internetting information and target recognition algorythms will change the battlefield totally. Presently, you could put the avionics of a global hawk (an autonomous UAV) into a B-2 and have an unjammable and practically unstoppable unmaned weapon delivery platform.

5. Jamming and counter-jamming is a back and forth battle. Presently, it is very difficult to jam satellite datalinks (important since all of our GPS guided weapons depend on it).

6. The US has 40% of the worlds defense spending. Tough competiton. I am not sure even the EU has the ambition to spend the necessary money to compete here. Several EU countries have great techincal capability and the international mixing is more common place. Israel could lead in low cost UAV field. Desparation leads to genius.

 

[syscom3]

The country that deploys UAV's designed specifically for air-to-air that are autonomous, will own the airspace over the battlefield.

 

[ozumn]

Just to correct an error made earlier, India does not have MiG31s, AFAIK only Russia and PRC have small numbers of MiG31s. India has Su30MKs, a sort of export version of the Su-35.

I would say Britain has the second highest potential for aerospace development, as it always has done. BAe is heavily involved with the Typhoon and also helped Saab with the JAS 39 Gripen (which also uses a licence built F404 (F/A-18 Hornet) engine from the US. France also has a reasonably well maintained aerospace industry, so europe as a whole would be second best, the main problem being sorting out all the bureaucratic red tape that strangles all their projects.

Japan mainly uses US technology with it's own contributions, like most nations, India isn't that much different nor is China, though both are maturing by developing their own indigenous aircraft.

Russia could make some top class stuff if they actually had any money. Their missiles are some of the best in the world currently, and their combat aircraft are probably some of the best in the world if you consider value for money. They are suffering from lack of investment though, and I would say their industry is in decline for the time being, any talent they have is likely to be lured to somewhere one of the other countries these days.

BAe helped SAAB how? what plane have Britain made since the awseome Hawker Hunter? i think the next big EU fighter will be a joint EU-Russian one.

 

[pbfoot]

well if you look at the link for the gripen website you provided there is a link for BAE as a partner the gripen may be fine a/c but as stated earlier it does not have very good range it'll be interesting to see how many times it will require air to air refuelling on its crossing the pond to go to red flag I'll estimate 6

 

[ozumn]

Partner for sales yes. when we visit the red flag in 2003 we didnt have air to air refuling so we did it in this order, scotland-Iceland-greenland-Canada, then different locations in the US

 

[davparlr]

The country that deploys UAV's designed specifically for air-to-air that are autonomous, will own the airspace over the battlefield.

Eventually you will be correct. This is an exciting field to get into. Unfortunately, politics will delay onset. General and Admirals responsible for weapons procurement are typically fighter pilots and will delay any progress the best they can. They are the latest "battleship admirals".

 

[syscom3]

Eventually you will be correct. This is an exciting field to get into. Unfortunately, politics will delay onset. General and Admirals responsible for weapons procurement are typically fighter pilots and will delay any progress the best they can. They are the latest "battleship admirals".

Agree'd.

Unfortunatley for them, the cost of building these new fighters are so expensive (let alone train pilots and keep them proficient) that simple economics is going to be the end of most of the dangerous manned missions.

 

[davparlr]

Agree'd.

Unfortunatley for them, the cost of building these new fighters are so expensive (let alone train pilots and keep them proficient) that simple economics is going to be the end of most of the dangerous manned missions.

I agree.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Ozumn i fail to see why you're opposed to Eu fighters? (i'm not too sure if you are or not) there are a LOT of politics that get in the way of development but all the same some of Europe's jointly developed aircraft are the best in the world, and sharing out the cost whilst getting the knowledge of half a continent isn't a bad thing, many joint Eu fighters are at the very least the equal of American fighters, the Airbusses aint too bad either, and look what happens when the Uk and US join forces.........

 

[ozumn]

im all for eu fighter but let saab and the russians desing them

im not sure what you mean by UK an US are they making a fighter? or something else. i know germany and us made some X plane hmm cant remember the name. i for one would like to skip american help in making a plane like we in sweden got to know when we tried to sell Viggen it was stoped all the time so they could sell the F16 =( that misstake didnt happen with gripen.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well we had a bit of input into the F-35 and it'll be a LONG time before the Eu and Russia work together for a fighter........

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Lockheed-Martin/ BAE F-35

 

[davparlr]

Ozumn i fail to see why you're opposed to Eu fighters? (i'm not too sure if you are or not) there are a LOT of politics that get in the way of development but all the same some of Europe's jointly developed aircraft are the best in the world, and sharing out the cost whilst getting the knowledge of half a continent isn't a bad thing, many joint Eu fighters are at the very least the equal of American fighters, the Airbusses aint too bad either, and look what happens when the Uk and US join forces.........

The issue here is not in techical expertise. Certainly several countries have capability to build great aircraft. Indeed, we put EU and Israel equipment on some of our latest aircraft. The issue is commitment of money to develop these weapons systems. In 2003 the US military budget was $417 billion. The combined military budgets of Germany, France, UK, and Italy were $151 Billion. You can figure that the rest of the EU is trivial. This is a significant advantage in research and development for US military aircraft development. until the EU steps up to shoulder more economic burden, they will have a difficult time meeting the US technically. Effectively, they are willing, and, by voting with their wallet, happy to concede military superiority to the US.

 

[Bullockracing]

Unfortunately, China will get us all in the next 10 years...

 

[syscom3]

The PRC is still a 3rd world country.

They are not some unstoppable giant that is undefeatable.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

BAE F-35

and don't you forget it

 

[Soren]

Nice technical picture there FLYBOYJ.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I see China slowly but surely catching up with the west but they need to modernise there 1950s technology military. Until then the only thing they have is lots of people.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

and don't you forget it

Now now, remember where she was born!!!

 

[Bullockracing]

In a work entitled America, Russia and the Revolution in
Military Affairs, two young Chinese officers at the Academy
of Military Science have issued their own warning: "Those
who believe that the current revolution in military affairs
will be under the control of the United States or can de -
velop only according to the speed and directions set by the
United States are extremely wrong and quite danger -
ous."