Which was the best night fighter?

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

Gents

I have gone into hiding the last two-three days due to being ill - meds crap again...........

hoping this makes sense , the individual said according to an article that the P-38M was operational, that was not the prob at all but what got him banned forthwith was his up your Ass comment he made to me. that showed all of 0 maturity and tact, so he fell on his face and is out of here. I would hope that most of you would be smart enough not to engage in this type of behaviour, but think first before making a written action and maybe even write a private

right now I really don't feel like much talking further as energies are below 25 % at the moment.

Dan got your private but have not viewed your vid, will in short time when I am up to it

best to all
 

There is really no problem putting something out there that you have heard or read about, but you also have to be prepared to hear that what you have been told or read is wrong. A little humble pie is a good thing.

I had heard that the P-38 was called The Fork Tailed Devil by the Germans while working at a WWII aviation museum. Unfortunately, even museums get tied up in allied propaganda and I was corrected on the forum. No harm no foul. I had been here all of about a month at that time, and didn't cop and attitude about it. I think there was a point where Dan and I disagreed about something, and I survived that.

Just be cool and be respectful and you'll be fine. You've been doing that SoD.
 
It looks to me that he got the boot, not for his comment about the P-38, but simply because he told a mod, in no uncertain terms, to bugger off. That is why I thought he was a dope.

I have had one or two disagreements on this forum, with mods, but the disagreement always is subjective (relating to the material being discussed). I think because of that there has never been any suggestion of kicking me off. It is just a matter of common sense, try and treat people the way you want to be treated, and dont get into a personal slanging match.

If that doesnt work, then so be it....
 

It doesn't get simpler than that! Well said!
 
Not sure if I should post this, so apologies

I always told my pupils at school not to rely on the Internet unless they could verify the source.

I guess the guy's attitude got him the chop, but put "p 38m" into your browser and what comes up is this

"Lockheed P-38M Lightning
Last revised June 13, 1999


Early in 1943, at least two unidentified P-38Fs were modified in the field by the Fifth Air Force as single-seat night fighters by fitting an SCR540 radar with yagi antennae on the nose on both sides of the central nacelle, and above and below the wings. In order to make room for the radar, two of the 0.50-inch machine guns and their ammunition boxes had to be moved forward. Three P-38Js were also modified in the field as experimental night fighters.

However, these modifications were all single seaters, and it was found that the flying of the plane and the operation of the radar was too much of a job for just one person. Consequently, Lockheed attempted to adapt the P-38L as a two-seat night fighter. In 1944, Lockheed converted P-83L-5-LO Ser No 44-25237 as a two-seat night fighter, with the radar operator sitting aft of the pilot under a raised section of the canopy. The aircraft was fitted with an AN/APS-6 radar in an external radome underneath the nose, relocated radio equipment and anti-flash gun muzzles.

This modification was successful, and provided the USAAF with a night fighter having a top speed of 406 mph at 15,000 feet as compared to only 369 mph at 20,000 feet for the Northrop P-61A Black Widow. Consequently, the Army issued a contract change calling for the Lockheed Modification Center in Dallas to convert 80 additional P-38L-5-LOs into P-38M twin-seat night fighters (some sources give 75, but 80 serials are identified). They were painted glossy black overall. These were just entering service when the war ended. The P-38M saw operational service in the Pacific in the last few days of the war. It was an effective night fighter with very little performance penalty over the standard single-seat Lightning.

Flash eliminators were fitted to all guns, mainly to aid the pilot in retaining night vision when they were fired. Experiments were conducted with the object of shielding the turbosupercharger exhaust, but the entire exhaust system was so hot that it glowed at night, making the small reduction of visibility possible with the shielding of the actual efflux relatively pointless. Consequently, no modifications of the exhaust system were undertaken on "production" P-38Ms. Initial climb rate was 3075 feet per minute, and an altitude of 20,000 feet could be attained in 8.7 minutes.

A total of 80 P-38Ls were converted to P-38M configuration. Serials of P-38Ls converted to P-38M configuration were as follows: 44-26831, 26863, 26865, 26892, 26951, 26997, 26999, 27000, 27108, 27233, 27234, 27236, 27237, 27238, 27245, 27249, 27250, 27251, 27252, 27254, 27256, 27257, 27258, 53011, 53012, 53013, 53014, 53015, 53016, 53017, 53019, 53020, 53022, 53023, 53025, 53029, 53030, 53031, 53032, 53034, 53035, 53042, 53050, 53052, 53056, 53062, 53063, 53066, 53067, 53068, 53069, 53073, 53074, 53076, 53077, 53079, 53080, 53082, 53083, 53084, 53085, 53086, 53087, 53088, 53089, 53090, 53092, 53093, 53094, 53095, 53096, 53097, 53098, 53100, 53101, 53106, 53107, 53109, 53110, 53112.

There is a P-38M on display at the Champlin Fighter Museum at Falcon Field, Mesa, Arizona. It no longer has its radome slung under the nose, but the two-seat configuration is still retained. That radar operator in the rear must have been REALLY cramped!

Sources:

1. Lockheed Aircraft Since 1913, Rene J. Francillon, Naval Institute Press, 1987

2. The P-38J-M Lockheed Lightning, Profile Publications, Le Roy Weber Profile Publications, Ltd, 1965.

3. War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday, 1964.

4. Famous Fighters of the Second World War, William Green, Doubleday, 1967.

5. The American Fighter, Enzo Anguluci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.

6. United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian Institution Press, 1989.

7. e-Mail from Daniel Stover on P-38M counts (80 serial numbers listed)



Now don't do the same to me , I'm pointing out how bl**dy awkward the internet makes these issues and you can see where problems can start.
 
don't worry I'm not going to give you a groin kick but let me point out something with your sources if I may, not one of them have anything to do with a viable US Night fighter source. I have all of that crap stored, the M was not in operations in any part of the war except in China after hostilities ended. this is fact both from official US NF unit microfishe and at least a dozen Us night fighter veterans I have interviewed over the past 20 years, I have witnessed several clear colour pics of techs hopping aboard the black thing with the blutted nose radar system. If anyone thinks anyone in the Pacific or ETo was going to tade in their vaunted P-61B's for the P-38 well think again.

hoping this settles out real soon like right now. by the way I would not use Greens warplanes as a source even if someone paid me
 
Cheers Erich ............... I understand fully, it literally was the first web page listed.

As I said to my pupils "check your sources" anyway off to bed for both of us
 

Hi Flexi -

I saw that article as well and as stated, no sources are given and I believe the author just "borrowed" that line from the half dozen other Internet sources that state the same thing. I seen an AAF document that showed the aircraft deployed and activated at first Okinawa and then over to Atsugi. Now I think we all know that Okinawa was in allied hands in August 45, but Atsugi is on the mainland - no way anyone was deploying there prior to Sept. 45.

There's additional information about the crews being delayed because of training, arriving in country in late July, early August - that too would put this to bed as well.

I'll try to hunt down this data which also shows the 418th NFS as the only unit to receive the P-38M.
 
here is the story, squads A,B,C and D were in the final phase of training under the 450th AAFBU when hostilities ended, since the war ended the squads disbanded and the personell transferred to other units.
NO P-38M's saw operational service though 4 were sent to the Philippines AFTER THE END OF THE WAR. After the P-38M's were re-assembled they were given to the 418th NFS at Atsugi, Japan, the four P-38's flew surveillance and training flights in January and February 1946 under the command of Captain Gerald Bliss.
In February 1946 the 3 A/C were turned over to the 421st NFS which the project was short-lived as HQ ordered the project terminated. 1 P-38 had already cracked up earlier. the 3 A/C flew to the 45th Service Grps. field at Clark in the Philippines and on March 8, 1946 the P-38's were removed from the unit and destroyed
 

They are the exact reasons I think the Mossie was the best! I'm currently reading a book on nightfighter operations and it has completely opened my eyes on the subject! I have become very interested in it!

Eric maybe you can tell me what the problems with the JU388 were? No doubt the JU-88G6 was the best NF but the JU388 was basically a refined version! Why didn't it get operational in time to make any impact?
 
Yeah I too would be interested in hearing about the Ju 388. I never thought it had any real problems, it just was the lack of the proper engines (Jumo 222) that would allow the aircraft to fly at 430mph.
 
How common were radar problems and the failing of AI sets on the German side? From the account I'm reading it seems that for the British this was an extensive problem! Many planes had to turn around due to problems!

According to my source, this was especially the case when they transitioned from Beaufighters to Mossies
 

Users who are viewing this thread