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Friendly aircraft can operate without a strong fighter escort. Enemy aircraft must have a strong fighter escort or else they get slaughtered.
I don't think that's true. By the fall of 1944 the Luftwaffe was critically short of aviation gasoline and Allied fighter-Bomber sweeps over German airfields were a daily occurance. Under such circumstances the training of new German pilots was all but impossible and even trained pilots had operations greatly constrained. The Luftwaffe could occasionally hit back hard but those occasions became increasingly fewer and less effective.By your definition, Germany had air superiority to the end of the war as they were capable of 'slaughtering' Allied airpower over Germany absent Allied fighters.
Which territory? I don't think anyone is denying that the Allies had air superiority or supremacy over GB. Continental Europe is a whole different matter.There are normally thought to be three levels of control of the air. Air supremacy is the highest, meaning there is complete control of the skies. Air superiority is the next highest, which is being in a more favorable position than the opponent. It is defined in the NATO Glossary as "That degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another that permits the conduct of operations by the former and its related land, sea, and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by opposing air forces." Air parity is the lowest level of control, meaning control of the skies only above friendly troop positions.
Air parity, tending towards air superiority had been achieved over the germans by early 1942. This can be stated because whereas the allies were able to penetrate german controlled airspace with increasing regularity and ease, the same could not be said for german intrusions into allied airspace. german raids over allied controled airspace became virtually impossible from the end of 1942 onward, though they did occur. Only in restricted areas, or areas limited in size were the germans able to claim air parity.
Which territory? I don't think anyone is denying that the Allies had air superiority or supremacy over GB. Continental Europe is a whole different matter.
There were no allied troops in Germany, the Netherlamds, Belgium or France in 1942 and so there was no movement to be denied and no targets to raid. Eventhough simplistic, davebender's definition is interesting and does the situation more justice in my opinion. The LW forces could still operate freely in 1942 and most of 1943, whereas Allied forces needed strong escorts to avoid prohibitive losses. That changed in 1944 even over airspace where there were still no Allied ground troops.
I don't agree with Dave in his assessment as to when air superiority to whatever degree went to the Allies over Western Europe, I merely disagreed with "Air parity, tending towards air superiority had been achieved over the germans by early 1942", at least if this is to mean "everywhere" over Continental Europe.
The definition I gave is textbook stuff. In the context of a strategic bombing campaign, where the locations of troop concentrations is secondary to the location of the strikes formations, the troop concentration concept should be substituted with bomber formations.
Now, I say that air parity had been reached, tending toward air superiority, because by 1942, the LW was no longer in a position to mount massed raids over enemy controlled territory, whereas the allies were able to mount substantial attacks over german controlled territory with tolerable losses. Abeit at night for the deep penetration stuff, but even this capability had been denied (substantially) to the germans over allied controlled territory.
This part of the equation only amounts to air parity, since in 1942, as you rightly point out, the germans still controlled large portions of their air spaces (to the point of excercising air supremacy over those portions of their airspace), at least during the daylight hours. However, the fact that they had withdrawn, (and this was forced on them, by mounting losses in their battles over france principally) from defending parts of their territory, in particular, over NW France, by 1942, suggests that this air parity was tending toward Allied superiority. all the allies needed from that point was to develop the fighter aircraft with the legs to reach into the traditional areas of german controlled airspace, to complete the dominance over the LW....enter the mustang.
This is consistent with what actually happened. The Germans did not wake up one morning in early 1944 and suddenly find they had lost control of the skies over their own country. It was a process years in the making, with contributory effect found all the way back to 1940, and beyond. Actions by the RAF and the VVS in 1942, affected in a direct and tangible way, outcomes observed in 1944. Without those actions , the outcome in 1944 would have been completely different
You have a lot more faith in WWII era heavy bombers then I do.
Personally I think Germany could have been defeated just as quickly (and perhaps more so) if there had been no British and U.S. heavy bombers at all.
That's a moot point. You could argue that the diversion of resources and aircraft to a strategic bomber force,whose efficacity is certainly debatable,damned nearly lost us the war. The Battle of the Atlantic was a far closer run thing than it needed to be as a result.
Steve
That was a very good summary..
That was a very good summary..
For Tail End Charlie -
Here are some quotes from folks Not American, Not Brit, not somebody's grandfather on the forum - regarding opinions regarding air superiority..
The Reich's Ex-leaders Explain Why They Were Beaten - World War 2 Talk