Who Really Destroyed the Luftwaffe?

[Matt308]

Okay enough posturing. We all can claim some credentials to prove positive that our posts have God's provenance.

Enough gents. Anymore and this thread is going to have the Portcullis of Doom decend upon it all.

 

[lesofprimus]

There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many accounts of Luftwaffe pilots sittin on their asses with no fuel for the planes they could be flying to say there was any sort of pilot shortage....

Now, to say that there was a short supply of well trained and highly motivated pilots would be hitting the nail on the head...

 

[buffnut453]

Wasn't part of the problem that, unlike the RAF and USAAF, the Luftwaffe didn't rotate their operational pilots back home to be instructors? This resulted in some LW aces achieving incredible numbers of kills but it also resulted in increased mental strain from constantly being in combat. It also meant that new pilots weren't benefitting from the operational experience of these aces. I could be way off mark - the LW isn't one of my pet areas of interest - but if they did keep pilots on ops then inevitably the level of combat experience across the force would decline over time as these combat veterans died in crashes, combat etc.

 

[Nikademus]

Any comments about the AAF roaming the skys of Germany while the Spitfires were only over Holland?

Just one......that the pilots 'roaming' the skies of their respective combat theaters are just as deserving of their share of the props for defeating Germany and it's Luftwaffe as the fighter pilots of the 8th.

 

[Nikademus]

Wasn't part of the problem that, unlike the RAF and USAAF, the Luftwaffe didn't rotate their operational pilots back home to be instructors? This resulted in some LW aces achieving incredible numbers of kills but it also resulted in increased mental strain from constantly being in combat. It also meant that new pilots weren't benefitting from the operational experience of these aces. .

Yes. Germany's manpower situation did not allow them the luxery of fixed pilot rotation. While this was not the case in every situation, in general, Luftwaffe pilots fought on until killed or wounded. The resulting situation whereby some units/forces would have an extremely experienced core of 'Experten' was at times detrimental to the development of up and coming pilots as they took a backseat as support for these crack men while they cranked up their scores. Attrition eventually killed many of the experts as well. VVS pilots faced a similar situation. With one's country on the line, they too did not have the luxery of a "tour of duty" They fought until wounded or killed, many in anominity.

 

[Nikademus]

on a lighter note.....i'm finding Gamble's "Fortress Rabaul" to be an enjoyable read. It's helped fill in some holes on the early fighting so far...events not covered in detail in other works, such as RAAF No. 75 Squadron's efforts at Port Morosby and the early USAAF raids against Rabaul itself. Even on the well covered events, such as O'Hare's award winning run during the aborted Lexington raid, the author's writing style injects a freshness to the battle while giving equal props to both sides for their professionalism and bravery.

I'm only wincing so far at the price i paid for a hardback version. Should have bought it online but it was an impulse buy, having eyed it for several weeks without biting.

 

[GrauGeist]

The answer here, to the question "Who really destroyed the Luftwaffe" would be "They all did"...

It was the determination and multi-front air war that ground the Luftwaffe into the ground...literally.

People will (and are) argue that one air force did all this, and that air force did that, but it was the fact that the German leadership expanded thier war into a multi-front disaster that thier resources and manpower could not sustain.

While the Luftwaffe and thier allies put up a tremendous fight, the sheer weight of numbers of the RAF, USAAF and Soviets along with thier allies combined, finished the Germans off.

Yes, the USAAF's combined bomber/fighter offensive hurt Germany, but the early bleeding by the determined RAF dealt Germany a blow that was felt for the rest of the war. The meat grinder of the Ost Front was a slow hemmorage to the Luftwaffe, committing vast resources of the German war machine.

So in the end, it wasn't any single Allied airforce that won the war, it was a concerted effort, no matter how small the role, that took down the Luftwaffe...

 

[steve51]

Gentlemen,

The debate on this thread has been very informative for me. Thank you to all who have posted.

 

[pbfoot]

Any comments about the AAF roaming the skys of Germany while the Spitfires were only over Holland?

yep who was doing the escorting for the AAF B26's over Holland

 

[tail end charlie]

The answer here, to the question "Who really destroyed the Luftwaffe" would be "They all did"...

It was the determination and multi-front air war that ground the Luftwaffe into the ground...literally.

People will (and are) argue that one air force did all this, and that air force did that, but it was the fact that the German leadership expanded thier war into a multi-front disaster that thier resources and manpower could not sustain.

While the Luftwaffe and thier allies put up a tremendous fight, the sheer weight of numbers of the RAF, USAAF and Soviets along with thier allies combined, finished the Germans off.

Yes, the USAAF's combined bomber/fighter offensive hurt Germany, but the early bleeding by the determined RAF dealt Germany a blow that was felt for the rest of the war. The meat grinder of the Ost Front was a slow hemmorage to the Luftwaffe, committing vast resources of the German war machine.

So in the end, it wasn't any single Allied airforce that won the war, it was a concerted effort, no matter how small the role, that took down the Luftwaffe...

Graugeist I couldnt say any more

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Flyboy the Pax Americana has pissed me off completely

It seems that you can prove a few bombing raids on Rumanian refineries has more effect on oil production than the re occupation of Rumania and ditto for the whole of eastern europe.


Sadly the time when America was viewed as a benign and idialistic influence has long since past. American policy is no longer viewed as idealism and values, but profit for Halliburton (a company I have worked for). Looking back as most Europeans do, that was always the case. Flyboy you can be as Pissed off as you like you dont rule the roost any more (apart from on this forum) that belongs to China India and the conglomeration of countries you have pissed off as the world policeman. You can bar me from this forum (well big deal) but you cant change the reality. At the end of world war two America was viewed as the saviour of civilization and now as the great satan, you tell me how that happened?

I'm not - but what I am going to tell you is to chill and stay on topic and not turn this tread into a half/assed bashing and ranting session. End of discussion.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I suggest that this gets back on topic. What the hell does "The Great Satan" have to do with how the hell destroyed the Luftwaffe. I think someone needs to get their panties out of a wad and get back on topic.

Is that okay with you Charlie?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I again ask what the hell does this have to do with the topic?

Last warning...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Alright why the **** is everyone ignoring the Mods when they say to get back on topic?

 

[Colin1]

Alright why the **** is everyone ignoring the Mods when they say to get back on topic?

Yep
sorry Chris, you might want to pull my last post, no sense in inflaming the issue

 

[lesofprimus]

Thats a pretty damn good fu*kin question Chris....

 

[fastmongrel]

I think it was woodworm that destroyed the Luftwaffe. The terrible Black Forest woodworm infestation of 1941 prevented Goering building 50,000 Moskito fighter bombers that would have swept the allied airforces from the sky in 1944.

All hail the woodworm

Of course you know it was British woodworm that did the real damage US woodworm were just to slow and short ranged.

The above makes just as much sense as some of the other b*ll*cks being spouted on this topic

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Charlie - if your next post is off subject, I'm kicking you into cyberspace. Everyone else - you you're not going to stay on topic I'm locking down this thread!!!!!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think it was woodworm that destroyed the Luftwaffe. The terrible Black Forest woodworm infestation of 1941 prevented Goering building 50,000 Moskito fighter bombers that would have swept the allied airforces from the sky in 1944.

All hail the woodworm

Of course you know it was British woodworm that did the real damage US woodworm were just to slow and short ranged.

The above makes just as much sense as some of the other b*ll*cks being spouted on this topic

I think you meant "wormwood" (Rev 8:11)

 

[bobbysocks]

i think yuo meant you...sorry i married an english teacher.