Who was the better designer of German Aircraft?

[Burmese Bandit]

Whoa Whoa...what about the 189, BRILLIANT design - yes, it did the unglamorous job of artillery spotting communication and reconnaissance - but it did it with reliability, and an amazing amount of battle damage tolerance!

And the 200 - the only thing that was against this superb design was its weak structural strength...that wasn't Tank's fault as the Lufwaffe had never responded to his proposal for a purpose built military variant until it was too late!

And the Ta 152?

Mike...really!

 

[109ROAMING]

Messerschmitt for me

its also the most well known German WW11 Aircraft manufacturer-what does that tell ya

 

[syscom3]

My vote is for Kurt.

The FW190 was superior to the -109 and the Ta152 had the potential to really mess things up for the allies.

 

[Watanbe]

My vote is for Kurt, whilst Willy may of been ahead with jet designs but at the end of the day Kurt was realistic with what he produced. The planes he produced were ready to fight and make an immediate impact.

 

[steelDUST]

Kurt Tank.
End of discussion.

 

[drgondog]

Kurt Tank.
End of discussion.

I worked for two giants in te US airframe biz - each contributing dramatically in separate secors of the Aerospace industry. One was Kelly Johnson who needs no introduction and might be a hybrid of Tank and Messerschmidt.

The other was Bart Kelly at Bell Helicopter who had many of the fundamental patenst on rotary wings and control systems.

Both were 'hands on' and involved in all major design branches.

The separation of the two above might be similar in that Willy and his design team pushed the envelope and emerged with a fighter in production that was poised for supersonic flight given the right engines and incorporating radical swept wing technology.

Kurt Tank combined performance with reliability and capability to grow into evolutionary roles.

Both are giants in the industry so choosing is a matter of choice.

Given all the above and posing the question - who best innovator and program manager? I would vote Johnson. There may never be another example of pushing the envelope like the YF-12/SR-71

 

[Venganza]

I have to go with Kurt Tank, apologies to Herr Messerchmitt. The FW-190 and Ta-152 do it for me. And I'd forgotten about the FW-189, Das Fliegende Auge, an excellent plane that's not as well known as it should be, doing the dangerous but useful job of battlefield reconnassaince. And let's not forget the Ta-183 - a design that looks very suspiciously like the Mig-15.

Venganza

 

[Nicolas]

In 1944, Focke-Wulf created three designs for a bomber using two Heinkel-Hirth He S 011 turbojets. These bombers were known under the name of the 1000x1000x1000 Bomber-Projekt and were under the direction of Dipl.-Ing. H. von Halem and D. Küchemann. The designation meant that the aircraft could carry a 1000 kg (2205 lbs) bomb load 1000 km (621 miles) and fly at 1000 km/h (621 mph).
The second design under the design number 031 0239/10 was for a flying wing layout. There was a small fuselage which contained the cockpit and forward landing gear. The wing was swept back at 35 degrees and the fuel load in flexible tanks was carried ahead of the main wing spar. The engines and main landing gear were located behind the main wing spar. Two Heinkel-Hirth He S 011 jet engines each developing 1300 kg (2866 lbs) of thrust were fed by air intakes located in the wing leading edge near the wing roots. The wing tips were bent downwards to act as vertical stabilizers and contained small rudders. The ailerons also served as elevators and in addition small deflectors were mounted within the jet exhaust, one of the first uses of thrust vectoring. The main landing gear retracted inwards and the nose gear swung up and forward. A single pilot sat in the extensively glazed cockpit located in the extreme nose, and no armament was planned at this stage in the development. A 1000 kg (2205 lbs) bomb load could be carried in the internal bomb bay located in the center wing.
Since these designs would have taken several years to complete, the end of the war ended all development.

 

[steelDUST]

I worked for two giants in te US airframe biz - each contributing dramatically in separate secors of the Aerospace industry. One was Kelly Johnson who needs no introduction and might be a hybrid of Tank and Messerschmidt.

The other was Bart Kelly at Bell Helicopter who had many of the fundamental patenst on rotary wings and control systems.

Both were 'hands on' and involved in all major design branches.

The separation of the two above might be similar in that Willy and his design team pushed the envelope and emerged with a fighter in production that was poised for supersonic flight given the right engines and incorporating radical swept wing technology.

Kurt Tank combined performance with reliability and capability to grow into evolutionary roles.

Both are giants in the industry so choosing is a matter of choice.

Given all the above and posing the question - who best innovator and program manager? I would vote Johnson. There may never be another example of pushing the envelope like the YF-12/SR-71

But, my friend, the question in this thread is: Who was the best German Aircraft Designer?

Definitely, Johnson and Kelly shouldn't be mentioned here. Good day!

 

[4mot]

Kurt Tank for me. He has designed by Focke Wulf 187 (it was better and faster than Me 110), 190 and Ta 152, 154...

 

[CloCloZ]

Although I think FW190D-13 was likely the best all-around fighter of WWII, I voted for Willi Messerschmitt.

In fact, I consider FW190 to be the only really remarkable achievement of Prof. Tank (an outstanding one, indeed), whereas Messerschmitt designed at least two: Me109 and Me262, the latter being not just well ahead of its time but (relatively) mass-produced too.
Talking about Tank's planes, Ta-152 is in my opinion the most overrated and overhyped plane ever: Ta-152H was no more than an high-altitude successor of FW190D, that used at medium and low heights had during its short career, contrary to popular belief, an absolutely unimpressive (yes: UNimpressive …) kill/loss score (7:4) notwithstanding it was flown by aces for almost the half of them.
Whereas Ta-152C, that never went much beyond prototypal stage, wasn't a big step forward if compared to Dora 13 (if any ...).
As for the other Tank's projects, Ta-183 never "flown" outside the wind tunnel whereas FW-187 was likely a good plane on which in my opinion too many people have daydreams and "what if". And we have to remember that whereas prototypes performances were very good, it probably would haven't been so much superior to competitors if it were tested fully armed and had to carry the weapons' load (just as the story of the disastrous Ta-154 remarks).
Although Fw200 was a good plane in the very particular role of maritime reconnaissance and bombing, even considering that it's not enough for me to put Tank ahead of Messerschmitt.
Of course, it's a close contest between the two ...

 

[KrazyKraut]

To say Tank's other designs were unimpressive is just wrong. The Fw 200 was arguably a better design than even the Fw 190. The Fw 189 was great aswell. The post war Marut was a great design aswell, it only suffered from never receiving a proper engine such as the RB.153.

The Ta 152 H was designed as a high altitude interceptor, that's where it should be judged. Mid-to-low altitude still was sufficient.

 

[Marcel]

To say Tank's other designs were unimpressive is just wrong. The Fw 200 was arguably a better design than even the Fw 190. The Fw 189 was great aswell. The post war Marut was a great design aswell, it only suffered from never receiving a proper engine such as the RB.153.

The Ta 152 H was designed as a high altitude interceptor, that's where it should be judged. Mid-to-low altitude still was sufficient.

Why was the FW200 such a great design? I thought it was a decent passenger plane, quickly converted for navel warfare, with the standard problems, weak undercarriage etc. I don't see anything unusual outstanding to that.
Tank also had his failures, just like other designers/manufacturers, think for instance about the TA154.

 

[Zipper730]

even though Messerschmitt himself was less and less engaged in the actual design work, his philosophy was still there.

I'm curious what that was?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I'm curious what that was?

FYI Kurfürst was banned a long time ago

 

[michaelmaltby]

There's ghosts in the corridors .....

 

[rochie]

There's ghosts in the corridors .....

 

[MiTasol]

Walter Blume

Designer of the Arado jets.

Beautiful and innovative aircraft but I admit I know almost nothing of their design features.

From what is on Wiki it appears though that too much effort was put into designing a massive number of variants (a common German trait). Had the design been frozen on just one or two production variants far more could have been built, not that it would have made any difference in the end because there were no engines coming from either manufacturers.
Note to self - must read some of those early post WW2 reports on German manufacturing that are gathering cobwebs somewhere here

 

[Zipper730]

FYI Kurfürst was banned a long time ago

I guess I'm not going to get an answer to that question eh? lol

 

[drewwizard]

My vote would be Heinkel just edging out Tank. Heinkel's first jet was far ahead of any other fighter and could have been deployed in 1940. How far Heinkel could have gone if the politics allowed is interesting speculation. Messerschmitt had several brilliant planes, but most of his designs were dogs.