Surplus Lend-Lease aircraft were scrapped, sold, abandoned, dumped, destroyed and recylced in most recipient nation. While most of these domestic and offshore disposals were well documented I have yet to find a single image of surplus Lend-Lease aircraft being scrapped in the UK. This is puzzling given that the UK was the largest single recipient of Lend-Lease aircraft. I would welcome any explanations for this. Thanks
Why was it? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter bauple58
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GregP
Major
The British pushed Lend-Lease aircraft over the side of carriers after the war was over.
cvairwerks
Staff Sergeant
Also some of them were required to be returned to the US or sent to other approved entities.
I think one of the issues would be that Lend Lease aircraft formed a small percentage of the total to be scrapped in the UK in 1945 compared to overseas. Most of the Lend Lease types for overseas theatres were delivered direct without ever visiting Britain.
For example, Bomber Command only had single operational squadrons of B-17 Fortresses and B-24 Liberators. Coastal Command only had 16 squadrons equipped with US Lend Lease types (Liberators,, Fortresses, Catalinas, Venturas). There were a fair number of Merlin Mustang squadrons with Fighter Command but only 2 A-20 Boston and 4 B-25 Mitchell squadrons with 2nd TAF.
A lot of the C-47 Dakotas were being retained for Transport Command.
This thread names quite a number of airfields where aircraft were scrapped.
Another that comes to mind was RAF Dumfries where I grew up. This is a photo of it around 1946.
HP52
Airman
Nothing spectacular to say except my Dad had a picture (destroyed by riverine flooding in Qld) of a Boston where the navigator fell through his floor hatch but caught himself by the elbows. There was no companionway forward. to get someone to help him. They eventually flew slow down the snowy runway and the Nav dropped out and survived. Could have been Wigsley, Leuchars, Scampton
- Thread starter
- #6
Ewen
Thanks for this thoughtful response. Your accompanying photo of surplus aircraft at Dumfries in 1946 adds to the mystery. If there were so many surplus Lend-Lease remaining in the U.K., then how is it that none were ever photographed (on the ground). This extract from Phil Butler and Dan Hagedorn's 2004 Lend-Lease study indicates that there would have been thousands remaining on charge with U.K. military forces.
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 936
- Sep 30, 2021
Apart from the reasons mentioned by Ewen another reason is the USAAF had a big presence in Europe and post VE day steadily withdrew from Britain, France and Italy to Germany. Handing back aircraft was easier than elsewhere with a good chance they ended up in Germany or even the US before disposal. In April 1945 the USAAF in the ETO had 13,927 aircraft, the MTO 4,809, that was down to 7,993 and 1,336 in August 1945 via a combination of scrapping and returns. The USAAF was anticipating a major jump in Pacific theatre operations. Add the ETO tended to have a higher percentage of the latest equipment. Throw in that a number of Mustangs fates at least are listed as "sold" and despite the plans many USAAF types were not disposed of until late 1946 or early 1947.
The following is drawn form different files, measuring different aircraft groups. RN aircraft are excluded as they do not have an end of war inventory figure plus most were away from Britain.
30th August 1945 the RAF reported it had received 37 different types totalling 20,657 Lend Lease aircraft of which 12,654 were still on strength, over the next 14 months the RAF expected to write off another 771 aircraft and retain 2,263 (588 Dakota, 1,335 Harvard, 21 helicopters, 27 Liberator GR or Bomber versions plus 68 cargo versions and 213 Vengeance) the rest were to be officially returned to the US, with 8,347 made available by end 1945, reducing the US types in service in 1946 to Boston, Dakota, Fortress, Liberator GR/B and transport, Marauder, Mustang, Thunderbolt and Ventura.
The British controlled areas Import/Export figures which exclude movements as part of organised military units start in April 1940 (with some data from earlier in the war) and include cash purchase aircraft as well as Lend Lease types, South Africa and India remained "British" for the war, other parts of the Empire started that way then began ordering direct, a thing to note is the US types that were exported from Britain. Imports are put at 37,107 from all sources to all destinations, of those 12,746 were US types for the RAF imported into Britain, of which 2,689 were later exported, plus any that left as part of squadrons like the early B-24 units, leaving in round terms under 10,000 aircraft of which maybe 6,000 were still on inventory at the end of the war, some of which were non lend lease and others to be retained.
End June 1944 (repeat 1944) the RAF reports it had around 4,058 US types on inventory in the UK or on way to the UK, 184 Argus, 236 Boston, 199 Catalina, 402 Dakota, 105 Fortress, 636 Harvard, 317 Hudson, 350 Liberator, 348 Mitchell, 839 Mustang, 144 Ventura account for 3,760 of these aircraft. As of 30 August 1945 RAF world wide holdings from Lend Lease shipments ONLY were 580 Argus, 248 Boston, 57 Catalina, 1,447 Dakota, 91 Fortress, 2,270 Harvard, 203 Hudson, 1,321 Liberator, 462 Mitchell, 1,227 Mustang, 163 Ventura.
There were a lot of US built aircraft in the RAF in Britain in 1945, some stayed in use in the RAF, some were returned, some sold (as flyable?), some scrapped from 1945 into 1947 or later, no doubt the negotiations on the Lend Lease settlement would have an impact on dates and numbers. You would need to do a survey of the aircraft in Britain to gain an idea of how many were scrapped by whom in Britain, when and where. Other factors are whether they were gathered together in the open and left there for extended periods where photography was possible.
The following is drawn form different files, measuring different aircraft groups. RN aircraft are excluded as they do not have an end of war inventory figure plus most were away from Britain.
30th August 1945 the RAF reported it had received 37 different types totalling 20,657 Lend Lease aircraft of which 12,654 were still on strength, over the next 14 months the RAF expected to write off another 771 aircraft and retain 2,263 (588 Dakota, 1,335 Harvard, 21 helicopters, 27 Liberator GR or Bomber versions plus 68 cargo versions and 213 Vengeance) the rest were to be officially returned to the US, with 8,347 made available by end 1945, reducing the US types in service in 1946 to Boston, Dakota, Fortress, Liberator GR/B and transport, Marauder, Mustang, Thunderbolt and Ventura.
The British controlled areas Import/Export figures which exclude movements as part of organised military units start in April 1940 (with some data from earlier in the war) and include cash purchase aircraft as well as Lend Lease types, South Africa and India remained "British" for the war, other parts of the Empire started that way then began ordering direct, a thing to note is the US types that were exported from Britain. Imports are put at 37,107 from all sources to all destinations, of those 12,746 were US types for the RAF imported into Britain, of which 2,689 were later exported, plus any that left as part of squadrons like the early B-24 units, leaving in round terms under 10,000 aircraft of which maybe 6,000 were still on inventory at the end of the war, some of which were non lend lease and others to be retained.
End June 1944 (repeat 1944) the RAF reports it had around 4,058 US types on inventory in the UK or on way to the UK, 184 Argus, 236 Boston, 199 Catalina, 402 Dakota, 105 Fortress, 636 Harvard, 317 Hudson, 350 Liberator, 348 Mitchell, 839 Mustang, 144 Ventura account for 3,760 of these aircraft. As of 30 August 1945 RAF world wide holdings from Lend Lease shipments ONLY were 580 Argus, 248 Boston, 57 Catalina, 1,447 Dakota, 91 Fortress, 2,270 Harvard, 203 Hudson, 1,321 Liberator, 462 Mitchell, 1,227 Mustang, 163 Ventura.
There were a lot of US built aircraft in the RAF in Britain in 1945, some stayed in use in the RAF, some were returned, some sold (as flyable?), some scrapped from 1945 into 1947 or later, no doubt the negotiations on the Lend Lease settlement would have an impact on dates and numbers. You would need to do a survey of the aircraft in Britain to gain an idea of how many were scrapped by whom in Britain, when and where. Other factors are whether they were gathered together in the open and left there for extended periods where photography was possible.
There doesn't appear to be a large population of photos of aircraft being scrapped in Britain. Many more of aircraft awaiting scrapping.
While here were thousands of Lend Lease aircraft in the hands of British military forces at the end of WW2 that doesn't mean they were physically in the UK. Consider just how many were physically delivered direct to other theatres. For example
Of 826 P-47D taken on charge by the RAF, only 2 of these came to Britain for use in trials. The rest were delivered direct to India or the Middle East, the latter for use by an OTU.
Of the 907 Mustang III (P-51B/C) received, 277 were sent direct to the Med via Casablanca. About 870 Mustang IV (P-51D/K) were received with about 100 going direct to the Med and 225 direct to India.
Almost all the 1,175 Lend Lease Martin Baltimore IIIA/IV/V went direct to the Middle East as did the 500+ Martin Marauders. Only a handful of these type came to the UK.
Britain received about 1,920 Liberators under Lend Lease, of which 1,059 were bomber versions (B.III/VI/VIII) again the vast majority of which were delivered direct to the Med and Far East. Many of the GR models were also sent to those theatres after receiving modifications in the UK.
Most of the Lend Lease A-20 Bostons were another type that served more in the ME than in Britain with most deliveries going direct.
When it comes to naval types while many may have arrived in the UK, but there were also deliveries direct from the USA to India, East Africa and South Africa. Then we have all the squadrons, and the replacement aircraft for them that left to fight in the Far East and Pacific in 1944/45, including some 160 Hellcats and Corsairs flown out to India in spring / summer 1945.
I've never even looked at how many trainers were delivered to countries operating the BCATP.
Of those Lend Lease aircraft that arrived in the UK some were then exported to other theatres. Then figure in those aircraft lost on operations or in accidents or scrapped during the course of the war.
While here were thousands of Lend Lease aircraft in the hands of British military forces at the end of WW2 that doesn't mean they were physically in the UK. Consider just how many were physically delivered direct to other theatres. For example
Of 826 P-47D taken on charge by the RAF, only 2 of these came to Britain for use in trials. The rest were delivered direct to India or the Middle East, the latter for use by an OTU.
Of the 907 Mustang III (P-51B/C) received, 277 were sent direct to the Med via Casablanca. About 870 Mustang IV (P-51D/K) were received with about 100 going direct to the Med and 225 direct to India.
Almost all the 1,175 Lend Lease Martin Baltimore IIIA/IV/V went direct to the Middle East as did the 500+ Martin Marauders. Only a handful of these type came to the UK.
Britain received about 1,920 Liberators under Lend Lease, of which 1,059 were bomber versions (B.III/VI/VIII) again the vast majority of which were delivered direct to the Med and Far East. Many of the GR models were also sent to those theatres after receiving modifications in the UK.
Most of the Lend Lease A-20 Bostons were another type that served more in the ME than in Britain with most deliveries going direct.
When it comes to naval types while many may have arrived in the UK, but there were also deliveries direct from the USA to India, East Africa and South Africa. Then we have all the squadrons, and the replacement aircraft for them that left to fight in the Far East and Pacific in 1944/45, including some 160 Hellcats and Corsairs flown out to India in spring / summer 1945.
I've never even looked at how many trainers were delivered to countries operating the BCATP.
Of those Lend Lease aircraft that arrived in the UK some were then exported to other theatres. Then figure in those aircraft lost on operations or in accidents or scrapped during the course of the war.
