Why was the Bf 110 obsolete as a night fighter

davebender · Dec 27, 2012

How many German fighter aircraft were assigned to these anti-Mossie squads?

Milosh · Dec 27, 2012

davebender said:
How many German fighter aircraft were assigned to these anti-Mossie squads?

JG25 and JG50 were 2 units.

davebender · Dec 27, 2012

Jagdgeschwader 50 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 31 July 1943 the unit was declared operational, with a total of 19 aircraft. On 17 August 1943 the unit was one of those who intercepted American bomber forces attacking the Messerschmitt factory in Regensburg and the ball bearing plants in Schweinfurt. Grislawski claimed two Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses downed on this raid. On 6 September the unit's pilots shot down four Flying Fortresses over Stuttgart, one to Grislawski, and two claimed by Graf with the WfGr.21, who was then shot down but survived a forced landing. Grislawski claimed one other kill with the unit, a B-17 on 14 October.

In around four months of operations Graf was the sole pilot of JG 50 to down a Mosquito, which he caught after loitering at 30,000 feet over Groningen.

By October, JG 50 had been disbanded and merged with I Gruppe, JG 301.

It appears to me these units were diverted to attacking B-17 formations. They didn't exist for long either.

wuzak · Dec 27, 2012

davebender said:
Jagdgeschwader 50 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It appears to me these units were diverted to attacking B-17 formations. They didn't exist for long either.

Perhaps because they were spectacularly unsuccessful in shooting down Mosquitoes?

stona · Dec 28, 2012

Erich said:
actually not true. herr Goebbels was so infatuated with the Mossie and so was the fat man over Berlin proper that written orders were up to form anti-Mossie squads to take on the invading LSNF. the myth that proports the Uhu as a famous Mossie killer has been around since the 1950's and makes some interesting conversation but as I stated earlier the Uhu was not originally created for these operations.

Exactly,hence the proposed A-6. The biggest problem for the He 219 attempting to catch a Mosquito was the altitude at which the latter could fly. I wouldn't fancy flying around a night sky infested with enemy intruders in an unarmoured aircraft with no flame dampers but I suppose the Luftwaffe was getting desperate!

The reason for the obsession with producing something to deal with the Mosquito is rooted in Parsifal's post above.

BTW I make it 10 Mosquitos for the He 219 as well.

My notes have 19 He 219s shot down one way or another. 1 on a ferry flight,1 on a practice flight,1 by return fire from a Lancaster (crew survived to tell the tale) which leaves 16 available for the Mosquito claims,which makes 14-18 entirely plausible.

Cheers

Steve

davebender · Dec 28, 2012

Perhaps because they were spectacularly unsuccessful in shooting down Mosquitoes?

I suspect B-17 heavy bombers were considered a greater threat then Mosquitoe light bombers. That's why high altitude Me-109s got diverted to the new mission almost as soon as the unit was formed.

wuzak · Dec 28, 2012

davebender said:
I suspect B-17 heavy bombers were considered a greater threat then Mosquitoe light bombers. That's why high altitude Me-109s got diverted to the new mission almost as soon as the unit was formed.

I think you'll find that they were not the only night units used for intercepting the B-17s over Schweinfurt. And that they weren't removed from night duty because of it.

Also, Mosquitoes were the pathfinders for the RAF heavies. Shooting down Mosquitoes would cause problems for the navigation and accuracy of RAF raids. So, yeah, Mosquitoes were very important targets.

spicmart · Dec 28, 2012

How did the nightfighters identify friend or foe?

parsifal · Dec 28, 2012

RAF Night Fighter activities as part of the bomber offensive did not begin until after July 1943, with the introduction of IFF techs. There were various technologies used, of which Serrate (Marks I to V) were prominant. Serrate was hampered by Window and then the introductuction of SN-2 radar (for Serrate I to III). By later 1944, the RAF was slowly developing counters to SN-2.

Erich · Dec 29, 2012

protection units both single engine and later 262's for Berlin. again the massive paranoia of the pin pricks on Berlin and surrounding areas by the LSNF gave rise to the 109 staffels to engage the Mossies if they could. 4./NJGr 10 which scored a terrible 0 was equipped with Fw 190A-8's tried to engage the Mossies at the coast line. 1./NJGr 10 out of Werneuchen equipped first with Fw 190A-5/6,7's and later A-8's then Bf 109G-6/AS scored a few kills. 10.(N)/JG 300 formulated out of III./JG 300 which first scored a scant 3-4 Mossies was truly an anti-Mossie unit based at Jüterbog. first 18 109G-6/AS later G-14/AS and then at November 44's end a paper transfer formulating II./NJG 11 primarily 5 and 6th staffels which went on with hardly a success.

Glider · Dec 29, 2012

Erich said:
protection units both single engine and later 262's for Berlin. again the massive paranoia of the pin pricks on Berlin and surrounding areas by the LSNF gave rise to the 109 staffels to engage the Mossies if they could. 4./NJGr 10 which scored a terrible 0 was equipped with Fw 190A-8's tried to engage the Mossies at the coast line. 1./NJGr 10 out of Werneuchen equipped first with Fw 190A-5/6,7's and later A-8's then Bf 109G-6/AS scored a few kills. 10.(N)/JG 300 formulated out of III./JG 300 which first scored a scant 3-4 Mossies was truly an anti-Mossie unit based at Jüterbog. first 18 109G-6/AS later G-14/AS and then at November 44's end a paper transfer formulating II./NJG 11 primarily 5 and 6th staffels which went on with hardly a success.

At a time when German resources were so desperately short, this must have been an effort which could not be spared.

hedge hopper · Dec 29, 2012

The former home of this wonderful aircraft designer. This is Hazlemere, High Wycombe. Buckinghamshire.

Why was the Bf 110 obsolete as a night fighter

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