Willi Reschke´s G-?, August 29th,1944

[seesul]

Hi ya all,

I have already started this discussion at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/ta-152-best-high-altitude-fighter-460-33.html but don´t wanna bore this thread anymore as it is about Ta-152H.
On August 29th 1944 while attacking B-17G´s from 20 Sqdn,2ndBG, one Bf109, that was behind Willi Reschke´s machine, shot of a part of Willi´s Bf109 and Willi was forced to emergency landing near Banov. After the landing Willi was transfered to rail station in Uhersky Brod and drove by train to his unit.
Local people toke some pictures of his machine. I know 4 pictures till now and have 3 pics available (attached). As Willi says in his book it should be G-6 version and all the available sources say the same but the pictures show something different. There are no usual bulges on the engine cowling and this machine seems like G-6AS,G-10 or G-14AS.
Can someone identify this machine?

Thanks

Roman

P.S. for German speaking people- I´ve opened the same discussion at LBB « Luftwaffe Bullet Board » Forum zur deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte

 

[seesul]

Trumpeter produces Willi Reschke´s Bf109G-6 in scale 1:24.On the transfer paper there´s a Wnr. 412960. Two versions from this kit are available- Willi Reschke´s and Erich Hartmann´s machine. Does someone know if this Wnr. had belonged to Hartmann´s machine? Willi Reschke doesn´t know the Wnr. of his emergency landed Bf. I´ve tried to contact the people from Trumpeter regarding this matter but no answer till now...

Roman

 

[Erich]

Roman Willi flew a late model G-6. G-10's were not available to fall of 44 and even the G-14 and G-14/AS were late in coming. I do not feel that JG 302 had any g-6/AS as the unit was going through separation with the cadre off to other units, special emphasis on sister unit JG 301 with brand new Fw 190A-8, A-8/r2's and A-9's as it needed experienced pilots for tackling US heavy bombers during the daylight hours

 

[seesul]

O.K. Erich, but if you compare the picture on the Trumpeter box, there are bulges on this machine. Trumpeter says it´s late version.
But on the photos taken after Willi´s crash landing I can´t see the same bulges and the same photos show ''big engine cowling'' that is (on my opinion, I´m not an expert) typical for the engines with bigger compressor, which would point to the AS version. Have you seen the discussion at Luftwaffe [LuftArchiv.de - Das Archiv der Deutschen Luftwaffe] 2.WK ?

Gruss

Roman

 

[seesul]

Erich,

and something else- look, what my friend had written at LBB « Luftwaffe Bullet Board » Forum zur deutschen Luftfahrtgeschichte

1)Kinnbeule
2)Bsk 16
3)Antenmast des FuG 16 ZY unter der linken Tragfläche

1 und 3 ist typische für G-14/AS, nicht für G-6/AS oder G-6/ASy. Ersten GMaschinen der G-14/AS reihe erhielt Jagdwaffe seit August 1944(z.B. II./JG 27-Quelle: Jochen Prien : Chronik des II/JG27 S. 471,455, II./JG 53-Quelle: J.Prien/P.Rodeike:messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G,K Series,S.148,149

Oh man, what a mess...

Gruss

Roman

 

[Wurger]

Undoubtedly, in the third pic it is clearly visible it isn't standard BF109G6.Look at the fin and the rudder,please.Besides looking at the engine cowling I got the impression that the engine could be the DB605AS.The hole on the cowling is very charakteristic for the power plant.It is possible the plane at the pic is the G6AS or early G10/G10AS.Certainly I can be wrong.Of course there is also possibility that these pisc don't show Willi Reschke's a/c.

 

[seesul]

Undoubtedly, in the third pic it is clearly visible it isn't standard BF109G6.Look at the fin and the rudder,please.Besides looking at the engine cowling I got the impression that the engine could be the DB605AS.The hole on the cowling is very charakteristic for the power plant.It is possible the plane at the pic is the G6AS or early G10/G10AS.Certainly I can be wrong.Of course there is also possibility that these pisc don't show Willi Reschke's a/c.

Thanks for your opinion Wurger, what a mystery plane!
Btw the fact, that this is Willi Reschke´s machine, is 100% sure. I live in this area, know the eye witnesses of his emergency landing and Willi was there last year and recognized this area. The girl on left is still alive and remembers him after the landing and met him last year again...

Roman

 

[Wurger]

Hi Roman,
So, it is really a mistery plane.

Wojtek

 

[seesul]

Hello Wojtek,

I spoke to Willi Reschke yesterday and he belives this photo is a photomontage.
But it is not as I´ve seen an original photo in smaller size in the photo album of this girl (today ederly women for sure). This photo was taken in 1944 and is absolutely the same like this one that I´ve posted and shows the same machine

Nice weekend

Roman

 

[Wurger]

Hi,
I think, non of these pics are a photomontage.Unfortunately people in the pics covered very important parts of the plane for proper ID.The third pic is better one 'cos we can see the front part of the plane.But two girls covered its number and as a result we cannot be sure it is the same plane like this in shots uploaded above.I'm still convinced it is Bf 109 with DB605AS.As far as Willi Reschke's memory is concerned - it occured so many years ago.But he should know the best.

 

[seesul]

Hi,
I think, non of these pics are a photomontage.Unfortunately people in the pics covered very important parts of the plane for proper ID.The third pic is better one 'cos we can see the front part of the plane.But two girls covered its number and as a result we cannot be sure it is the same plane like this in shots uploaded above.I'm still convinced it is Bf 109 with DB605AS.As far as Willi Reschke's memory is concerned - it occured so many years ago.But he should know the best.

Yeah, you´re absolutely right. I´ve seen 4 pics of this machine but have only 3 available. 4th picture is in the book ''Mustangy nad Protektoratem'' (Mustangs over Protectorate) written by Jiri Rajlich. And this is very nice shot as it was taken from the front left side and if I´m not wrong the engine cowling is complete to see there. I´ll try to get it somewhere...
But anyway, both these girls are from Banov (crash landing site) and that girl on the left is still alive. This pic comes from her... And only Willi Reschke´s machine crash landed near Banov during WWII...

btw where you´re from? Have good friends in Krakow and Wroclav
btw2 the parents of my American friend Joe Owsianik that is mentioned in my siggy come from Krakow. They moved to New Jersey in 1889 and he was born there. He´s going to visit me in term from 23/8 till 3/9. He wanted to meet Willi Reschke in our town but Willi Reschke doesn´t want to make such a long trip anymore... But anyway, I´m really very happy that we could have Willi Reschke on visit last year. What a experience!

 

[Wurger]

Ahoj Roman,

''Mustangy nad Protektoratem'' I haven't had any opportunity to read the book so far.If it's possible try to upload the pic from the book,plaese.Perhaps this pic will make it clear.

BTW. Certainly I'm from Poland.I've been living on the South of Poland near Polish-Czech borderline for many years.Ostrava and Karvina were so close.Now I'm living on the North of my country.To be honest my ancestors came from Czech ( Tabor town ) and moved to Poland in 15 th century.My family lived in Wroclav for almost 200 years.And of course ,I have friend both in Cracov and Wroclav.My brother lives in Opole.Simply, this area it is my native one.Nice to meet another Polish-Czech guy.

zdravim moc,
Wojtek

 

[Konigstiger205]

The one with the 2 girls is definitely a g6/as and the first 2 pictures you can't really tell.

 

[seesul]

To Wurger:
Thanks for your prompty answer! It´s a pity you don´t live near the Czech/Polish border anymore...

To Königstiger:
my friend says it´s G-14AS. If you can read German, look at this:

1)Kinnbeule
2)Bsk 16
3)Antenmast des FuG 16 ZY unter der linken Tragfläche

1 und 3 ist typische für G-14/AS, nicht für G-6/AS oder G-6/ASy. Ersten GMaschinen der G-14/AS reihe erhielt Jagdwaffe seit August 1944(z.B. II./JG 27-Quelle: Jochen Prien : Chronik des II/JG27 S. 471,455, II./JG 53-Quelle: J.Prien/P.Rodeike:messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G,K Series,S.148,149

Or, shall I translate it? Anyway, thanks for your answer.

 

[Konigstiger205]

Thanks I may have jumped to conclusion to soon but I can't speak german although my nick is indeed german.

 

[Wurger]

To Wurger:
Thanks for your prompty answer! It´s a pity you don´t live near the Czech/Polish border anymore....

Yeap,I could have some beers.Do you like it, don't you.

To Königstiger:
my friend says it´s G-14AS. If you can read German, look at this:

1)Kinnbeule
2)Bsk 16
3)Antenmast des FuG 16 ZY unter der linken Tragfläche

1 und 3 ist typische für G-14/AS, nicht für G-6/AS oder G-6/ASy. Ersten GMaschinen der G-14/AS reihe erhielt Jagdwaffe seit August 1944(z.B. II./JG 27-Quelle: Jochen Prien : Chronik des II/JG27 S. 471,455, II./JG 53-Quelle: J.Prien/P.Rodeike:messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G,K Series,S.148,149
.

I think it is possible but the G6AS,G10AS and G14AS were very similar one to another.Looking at the pictures I've got the impression it could be even later G5AS.For sure, it is early one of the mentioned versions.There aren't visible the big oblong bugles over the wheel wells what are typical for 660x190 main wheels of the later main landing gears.There is visible the small part of this in the second pic only and it is very hard to tell something on that.It looks like the small one for me, I mean for the 660x160 wheels.The tail wheel looks also small with a short gear.

 

[seesul]

Thank you Wojtek!

Great! Which kind of graphic programm do you use?
Yes, you are right, all these versions are very similar but I can´t discuss about each version as I´m not a Bf-expert... Will try to get that picture that is in the Jiri Rajlich´s book.

Sure, I like a beer. It´s my water in fact

Roman

 

[Erich]

I'm here for about 5 minutes. Reschkes mount is a G-6 not an AS version, there were no G-10's available in August of 44 to Reich defense the G-14's and AS version were in plae but not for the diminished JG 302 as I have mentioned several times, the unit was dissolving for many pilots to reform up JG 301 for the defense of the homeland, so please friends quit this and stop beating yourselves up ! 8)

machs gut !

E ~

 

[seesul]

I'm here for about 5 minutes. Reschkes mount is a G-6 not an AS version, there were no G-10's available in August of 44 to Reich defense the G-14's and AS version were in plae but not for the diminished JG 302 as I have mentioned several times, the unit was dissolving for many pilots to reform up JG 301 for the defense of the homeland, so please friends quit this and stop beating yourselves up ! 8)

machs gut !

E ~

O.K. Erich,

but you are following your records and written material you have and logically you´re right as well but the pictures show another version. At least engine cowling doesn´t correspondent to usual G-6 version. Even Willi Reschke said he believes this picture is a photomounting. Why? So there´s something strange...
Let us playing8) , I´ll look for another picture yet...

Roman

 

[Erich]

question why would Willi feel his pic of the G-6 ~ G-6/AS have been played with ?

Wurger points out some interesting pic points but they are also part of the very late G-6 series. JG 302 logs according to credence, affiliated German document records shows no G-10's or G-14's and sub types given to the unit before disolvemnet

~ on it goes, Reschkes flugbuch would not indicate an AS subtype but only G-6 in my understnading of viewing some in the past