Winston Churchill and the Lusitania (1 Viewer)

[parsifal]

Im a New South Welshman and Im Australian. You can call me either whatever you like. Just don't call me British

 

[Njaco]

Another digger heard from.........

 

[GrauGeist]

Reminds me of that scene from Donovan's Reef, where Gilhooley (Lee Marvin) yells at a group of Australian Sailors and calls them "limeys" and all hell breaks loose (while the Sgt. of the French Colonial Police watches from the bar).

 

[stona]

as if no Scots ever opposed of fought against American independence.

Nicola queen of Scots, like all politicians, tends to have a rather fluid interpretation of historical fact!

It's no accident that the Scots signed the Act of Union in 1707. They saw which way the wind was blowing and wanted a slice of what was until then largely an English Empire. Of course the sorry fate of Scotland's own imperial ambitions a few years earlier influenced the decision.

The Scots just had a lucky escape. I've just been in Norway and seen first hand the results of the collapse in oil prices there. One colleague was bemoaning the loss of nearly 3,000 oil industry related jobs in Stavanger and Rogaland.

Cheers

Steve

 

[mikewint]

Mike, I guess you can tell I'm a Churchill fan. You should try reading William Manchester's tome, "The Last Lion". I found it a very balanced account of his life.

That's OK Chris we all have our foibles, all in all you're a decent, likable, person anyway

 

[pbehn]

The Scots just had a lucky escape. I've just been in Norway and seen first hand the results of the collapse in oil prices there. One colleague was bemoaning the loss of nearly 3,000 oil industry related jobs in Stavanger and Rogaland.

Cheers

Steve

There are even more job losses in UK from the collapse in oil, I know I am one of them. Strictly speaking I am not a "job loss" because like a huge number in the oil industry I worked as a limited company. However having worked all over for 30 years it was a good time to call a halt.

The point I was making was a general one, nations seem to be able to just walk away from their history as if a change of government is a change of brand. We have no idea how people individually or as a nation perceive us and why. I was once asked by an Italian why England never produced any artists scientists or philosophers just brutes like Nelson. You have to read a lot into Nelsons history in the Mediterranean to even get an idea what he was on about but in that guys mind Napoleon was a great man of vision and Nelson was a homicidal brute trying to oppose the natural European order.

 

[redcoat]

I really think its not constructive to go over myths (my terminology) about men shot in the water, men shot in parachutes, etc. It was war and sometimes these things happened. But I've never been able to find anything in the form of an order from the Allies condoning these type of actions. The closest was Churchill who stated that the only way to beat the Axis was unrestricted warfare.

Churchill and Dowding the C in C of Fighter Command had an informal after dinner discussion during the Battle Of Britain about shooting pilots who had baled out of their aircraft, Dowding took the view that it was wrong to shoot pilots when over our territory when they would be taken prisoner, but that it was OK to shoot them if they were over their own territory and could soon return to combat duty, Churchill was horrified, he took the view that it was morally wrong to shoot them at any point.

 

[The Basket]

I agree that warfare is about winning and any tactic that wins is accepted.
Lusitania is also propaganda so trying to split the truth and the fiction is hard work.
I do agree that Churchill was no angel and like all historical figures can be equally saint or sinner.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree that warfare is about winning and any tactic that wins is accepted.
Lusitania is also propaganda so trying to split the truth and the fiction is hard work.
I do agree that Churchill was no angel and like all historical figures can be equally saint or sinner.

Good traits to have when leading a nation at war.

 

[vdorta]

This is a myth, Churchill had very little to do with the sinking of the Lusitania. The sinking and its consequences were mostly due to the fight within the German High Command about the war and the role of the submarine force in it, on whether it was enough to sink British merchant ships or to sink any and all merchant shipping that could help Britain. The hardcore German side (Tirpitz and the Navy) didn't care if this brought the US into the war, because they thought the war would be over by then if they succeeded in defeating the British. The moderate German side (Chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg and the Kaiser himself) was defeated and the rest is history.

 

[pbehn]

This is a myth, Churchill had very little to do with sinking of the Lusitania. The sinking and its consequences were mostly due to the fight within the German High Command about the war and the role of the submarine force in it, on whether it was enough to sink British merchant ships or to sink any and all merchant shipping that could help Britain. The hardcore German side (Tirpitz and the Navy) didn't care if this brought the US into the war, because they thought the war would be over by then if they succeeded in defeating the British. The moderate German side (Chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg and the Kaiser himself) were defeated and the rest is history.

I didn't know that he wad submarine commander, what a talent he had.