WW2 Aviation Mythbusters

[vanir]

I've heard a lot about Green, respected for effort but apparently led the charge on a wide array of misconceptions. One of the authors at LEMB actually broke it down once, describing no less than two generations of widely distributed publications whose entire reference material criss crosses and ultimately traces back to some erroneous assumptions by Green, showing the domino effect of inaccurate research by a single published author.

 

[tyrodtom]

Chennalt was Chiang Kai-Shek's chief aviation advisor from, I think, 1937 and heard Chinese reports of the Zero's success over Chungking, and other engagements in 1940. They ran rings around the I-15's and I-16's the CAF was flying, he would not of had exact figures, but he did know the Zero was quite a advance on what the Japanese had been flying. He passed on what information he did have and it wasn't believed.

 

[vanir]

One of my favourite wartime myths is the tremendously successful propaganda on the fictional He-100D fighter. When the British Ministry found out they did not exist in 41 they'd been receiving kill claims for the He-100 by RAF fighter pilots for about six months

 

[parsifal]

Has anyone ever seen that chennault report? If it says something like "My boys were flying against this new aircraft of the japanese and its really scary!!!!" or words to that effect, then we either have an American general telling porkies (which i doubt) or, the myth is not a myth after all


would love to see that report.....

 

[Njaco]

Myth - The Luftwaffe NEVER had a bomber that flew across the Atlantic almost to New York and returned.

 

[Capt. Vick]

Myth - The Luftwaffe NEVER had a bomber that flew across the Atlantic almost to New York and returned.

Amen brother! Let's bury this one!

 

[GregP]

I think the "bomb down the stack" on the Arizona comes from the fact that the ship's armor belts preclude a magazine incursion unless the bomb came through the stack and the ignition occurred that way. The armor belts were well able to take a hit from any bomb a Val or Zero could carry, and that lends credence to the "bomb down the stack," as otherwise the explosion is not really explainiable.

Battleship armor belts are a very well known commodity and they WORK.

So ... if there was no bomb down the stack, how did the armory ignite and explode?

Not saying there HAD to be a bomb down the stack, but if there wasn;t, what could the true explanation be?

Please don't suggest a sailor was smoking in the armory and dropped his lighter ...

 

[mhuxt]

There's a number involving the Mosquito. First and foremost is one which I*think* may also go back to Green. It's the one where He 219s shot down six Mossies in the 10 days following the initial five-kill sortie in 1943. The first Mossie to fall to a 219 came in May 44.

The other part of the myth is that the Mossie was "untouchable" up to that point. The first Mosquito shot down air-to-air was in December '41, the first to fall air-to-air at night was at the end of July 1942.

There's others, will double-check my facts on those ones.

 

[Shortround6]

Has anyone ever seen that chennault report? If it says something like "My boys were flying against this new aircraft of the japanese and its really scary!!!!" or words to that effect, then we either have an American general telling porkies (which i doubt) or, the myth is not a myth after all


would love to see that report.....

At some point General Chennault was retired from The US Army and acting as adviser/high ranking officer of Chinese air force was he not? In which case the Chinese ( or other nationality mercenary) pilots would have been "his boys" well before the AVG showed up.

 

[buffnut453]

How about "The AVG were in combat against the Japanese months, if not years, before America formally entered the war". That's a classic myth.

 

[kettbo]

I think the "bomb down the stack" on the Arizona comes from the fact that the ship's armor belts preclude a magazine incursion unless the bomb came through the stack and the ignition occurred that way. The armor belts were well able to take a hit from any bomb a Val or Zero could carry, and that lends credence to the "bomb down the stack," as otherwise the explosion is not really explainiable.

Battleship armor belts are a very well known commodity and they WORK.

So ... if there was no bomb down the stack, how did the armory ignite and explode?

Not saying there HAD to be a bomb down the stack, but if there wasn;t, what could the true explanation be?

Please don't suggest a sailor was smoking in the armory and dropped his lighter ...

Technically speaking, Belt armor defends against hits to the side of the ship.

IIRC, the Arizona Deck armor was sufficient for normal bombs from the Val. Thing was, the IJN modified some 14" naval projectiles for use by level-bombing Kates.
Remember, deck armor works against shells in the longer ranges of a ships calculated Immunity Zone. Shells would hit the deck at 35*-45* or so at the limits of their gunnery control. Entry angles could be greater at extreme ranges where chance of hit would be nil but penetration possible. The IJN calculated their modified shells striking at greater numeric angles (closer to vertical than normal gun trajectory means less armor to go through the closer to vertical to vertical) and determined that they could penetrate the deck armor.

 

[Siegfried]

I'm not sure about "Gabelschwanzteufel". About1975 the grandfather of my wife who stayed as soldier in southern Italy used this term when he talked about his adventures during the war. I cannot imagine that he had this word from a book after the war. It sound more like a
common word of a infantry solder who was attacked by P-38s
Regards
cimmex

What is unbelievable about the term Gabel-schwanz-teufel or fork tailed devil is it is an extremely long and awkward word of no use in a time critical situation. By the time someone has burbled out "Actung Gabelschwanzteufel" the warning is pointless and he is already caughing up blood Arrrrh! It is however more believable than the melodramatic 'whispering death' and 'whistling death' which were clearly fabrications of allied propaganda; the fact that these terms please the afficianados of these allied aircraft suggests this is so.

Gabelschwanzteufel is also somewhat descriptive.

 

[GrauGeist]

Whistling Death and Forked-Tailed Devil were nicknames I am familiar with coming from Pacific Theater vets (my Uncles and thier cronies) and I was always under the impression that these were names given to those machines by our guys...

Name one peice of military hardware that does NOT have a nickname (clean or otherwise)...lmao

 

[GregP]

I think the AVG WERE there months before the US joined the second world war, but the first actual combat was 10 Dec 1941, which is 3 days after the war started for the U.S.A.

So they were THERE months before but not actually fighting before the war started. Still, the difference is important as I believe the average American (assuming he knows what the AVG is ...) believes they were fighting the Japanese before the war was officially started.

So, good call on this myth!

 

[GregP]

We have been told by Pacific Vets that "Whispering Death" WAS a name given to the Corsair by the Japanese. It was done because the Corsair could dive on ground targets with reduced throttle and the only sond heard was the whispering whine of the supercharger. When our F4U-1 Corsair (the oldest one flying) flies, it sometimes can do the same thing when the pilot throttles back.

In fact, Tom Camp's FM-2 Wildcat does the same thing, only he comes by at cruise power. First you hear the engine, then the supercarger as he passes over the top of you.

In the case of the Corsair, the supercarger is the dominant sound only when the aircraft is well throttled back. Otherwise, the dominant sound is the R-2800 song of power. It may have many characteristics, but the R-2800 DOES sound powerful, and it is, in spades.

Whether or "Whisting Death" it was REALLY a name conferred by the Japanese is someting I can't confirm. I can only say I have heard it said by vets. How many of them ever met a Japanese soldier during WWII is another story, so it also could have been simple American propaganda. Maybe we could hear from some Japanese members on this one? The Japanese had nicknames for many things, but I am not sure they included American fighters!l

The Americans (and all Allies) had CODE names for enemy aircraft, but rarely common nicknames. It might be the same for the Axis, too. I DO know the Germans called the Ilyushin IL-2 a nickname ... the "Cementer" becasue it was so hard to shoot down and seemed to be made of cement! That is from numerous combat accounts. Maybe or maybe not for the Americn fighters ... but, of course, the P-38 was an unusual-looking airplane, so maybe it DID have a nickname.

Perhaps some German members could chime in here ...

 

[wuzak]

Surely "Whispering Death" is teh Bristol Beaufighter, not the Vought F4U Corsair?

 

[tomo pauk]

The myth about P-39s in VVS service destroying German tanks with their 37mm, or used to bomb Germans.
Even the mostly cited books here ('America's 100 thousand' and 'Vee's for victory') have fallen for it. OTOH, those were written in late 1990s, before many 1st hand accounts of P-39s were known in the West.

 

[Edgar Brooks]

It is however more believable than the melodramatic 'whispering death' and 'whistling death' which were clearly fabrications of allied propaganda.

Wrong; "Whispering Death" was the name given to the Beaufighter by the RAF personnel who flew it; it had nothing to do with propaganda.

 

[buffnut453]

I thought the Corsair was "Whistling Death" because in a dive the air passing through the wing root intakes created a whistling sound. Or is that another myth?

 

[buffnut453]

Here's a classic for you:

During a vertical dive, a Spitfire/P-47 (take your pick, I've heard this one related to both aircraft types) broke the sound barrier.