SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
It's not just for breakfast anymore.
XP-39 II - The Groundhog Day Thread
- Thread starter Shortround6
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Status
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Were Allied nutsacks self sealing?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The P-39, much like the F4F, was a type caught in a unique situation. A prewar design that had to adapt and make due until newer types could take the lead.
As for IJA aircraft of the 7th Air Division operating in the New Guinea area, there were no KI-44s. Only KI-43s, KI-61s and KI-45s.
Great questions, maybe we should have a thread just for that discussion.
Oh...wait...nevermind
buffnut453
Captain
Not at the outbreak of hostilities but the Allies learned very quickly and, by the summer of 1940, it was acknowledged that any groundhog destined for RAF service required self-sealing nutsacks.
On the Axis side of things, Germany was in-step with Britain regarding self-sealing nutsacks. However, the Japanese sacrificed nutsack protection on their groundhogs in favour of improved speed and climbing performance. That approach worked fine until the middle of 1942 but thereafter it proved to be a disastrous approach as the Japanese air arms lost increasing numbers of groundhogs because they either ran out of nuts due to damaged nutsacks or their nuts exploded due to Allied fire.
Last edited:
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Dear Diary,
Today I learned information about the following topics on the P-39 Thread:
1 - P-39
2 - Guns people own
3 - Scotch
4 - Groundhogs (both aerodynamic properties and CG)
I wonder if it makes a difference if it's African or European?
Today I learned information about the following topics on the P-39 Thread:
1 - P-39
2 - Guns people own
3 - Scotch
4 - Groundhogs (both aerodynamic properties and CG)
I wonder if it makes a difference if it's African or European?
Last edited:
You're forgetting nutsacks.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
There is a current shortage of nutsacks as, due to the Covid pandemic, they are being adapted for use as face masks by many people across the world.
However, an as yet unsubstantiated report has hinted that a hitherto unknown supply of genuine, 1944 vintage, un-issued nutssacks has been discovered, in crates buried "somewhere in Burma", although it is not known if these are of the self-sealing variety.
However, an as yet unsubstantiated report has hinted that a hitherto unknown supply of genuine, 1944 vintage, un-issued nutssacks has been discovered, in crates buried "somewhere in Burma", although it is not known if these are of the self-sealing variety.
GregP
Major
P-39s gathered in "towns," "clans," and "coteries." They kept morale up with social mixing and grooming, which was good becasue the landing gear needed con stant grooming.
Once the P-39 went from 1,200 hp to 1,325 hp, it could carry an astounding assorment of nutsacks, mostly centerline. If it didn't start eating the nutsacks from the aft end forward, it would wind up out of CG and would just sit on it's tail and not go anywhere until it crashed or was eaten by a German Hawk.
Once the P-39 went from 1,200 hp to 1,325 hp, it could carry an astounding assorment of nutsacks, mostly centerline. If it didn't start eating the nutsacks from the aft end forward, it would wind up out of CG and would just sit on it's tail and not go anywhere until it crashed or was eaten by a German Hawk.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Does the Planes Of Fame Museum in Chino, California, have any groundhogs in its collection?
Dash119
Senior Airman
Edward T. Maloney had tremendous foresight, but even he didn't foresee the need to preserve the veteran groundhogs...
GregP
Major
Our P-39 came from a South Pacific island and, instead of digging a burrow, it sat on its wheels in the dirt for 30+ years or more, and the corrosion means it will never fly again unless some rich benefactor donates a truckload of money so the wing spar can be replaced. So, ours IS a groundhog. Maybe COULD fly again, but likely never will. Not sure of ours was in the Prairie Dog-in-the-Ring squadron, but I think not. If it had been, it would be more dignified.
I think ours was in a redneck clan that was on New Guinea and was recovered in the 1970's by David Tallichet's team.
I think ours was in a redneck clan that was on New Guinea and was recovered in the 1970's by David Tallichet's team.
Last edited:
windhund116
Senior Airman
- 360
- Jul 3, 2017
The P-39, much like the F4F, was a type caught in a unique situation. A prewar design that had to adapt and make due until newer types could take the lead.
As for IJA aircraft of the 7th Air Division operating in the New Guinea area, there were no KI-44s. Only KI-43s, KI-61s and KI-45s.
Great questions, maybe we should have a thread just for that discussion.
Oh...wait...nevermind
Was it newly developed Navy air tactics or the Wildcat's toughness versus the Airacobra which lead the F4F to have a 5:1 plus kill ratio over the Japanese? From sources I've read, the P39 kill ratio was closer to 1:1 against the Japanese.
Thanks!
Nonetheless, right until the end of the war, Allied groundhogs were advised never to dog fight Japanese ones, particularly if they exposed their nutsacks at low speed, regardless of how under armoured they were...
windhund116
Senior Airman
- 360
- Jul 3, 2017
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Attached is a performance chart for the F4F-4 with P-39K performance in red. Keep in mind that the Wildcat climb data is at combat power while the P-39K is at normal power (2600rpm) above 12500'. The blue dots are climb rates for the P-39K at combat power (3000rpm).
My opinion of the combat record of the two planes in 1942 can be summarized as follows:
1. Training: Navy pilots graduated flight school with 600hrs flight time, AAF pilots 200hrs. Obviously this evened out as both groups gained combat experience.
2. Tactics: Navy discipline was probably better, hit and run only, no dogfighting since they were normally aboard ship.
3. Equipment: F4F-4s seldom carried drop tanks while P-39s almost always carried a drop tank which limited their climb and ceiling. Weight reduction would have helped.
4. Mission: Very similar fighter missions, escorting medium altitude bombers and defending their carrier/airbase against attack. The AAF had to contend with more high altitude bombers (G4M) at 18000'-22000' while the Navy carrier pilots intercepted mostly low altitude dive bombers and torpedo planes. At Guadalcanal both services mission was almost identical. Both planes performed ground strafing missions, but P-39s were also tasked with more ground attack missions including level and dive bombing. They effectively performed both missions while the Navy used SBDs and TBFs for bombing.
Attachments
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
I was under the impression that when all was said and done after much research, the F4F was closer to 1:1 not 5:1 but I could be mistaken.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Upon first reading this one, you came close to owing me a new keyboard...
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
The FM-2 had a very high kill ratio, some say the best of any.
Note that on the occasions when the F6F shot down seven on one mission the kills were all bombers that were not doing much maneuvering. The F6F pilot had to just bore in and not be disturbed by the rear gunner. I think they junked the Hellcat when they got it back on the carrier.
Note that on the occasions when the F6F shot down seven on one mission the kills were all bombers that were not doing much maneuvering. The F6F pilot had to just bore in and not be disturbed by the rear gunner. I think they junked the Hellcat when they got it back on the carrier.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I hope you didn't spill any scotch.
P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Not that I know of, but the Commemorative Air Force, San Marcos, TX branch has one.
- Status
