Your favorite post-war aircraft

[plan_D]

54,000 feet is the ceiling of the F-104, not the F-101. The 'Genie' was a nuclear tipped missile, with an explosive radius of 1000 metres. It would still need to catch up to the target and be in visual range, plus have a decent enough position. Either you, or the entire Canadian aerial command, were/are living in a dream world.

 

[Nonskimmer]

I vote for the latter. The CF-101 should have been fitted with the more conventional Sparrow/Sidewinder package, but never was.

 

[syscom3]

The USAF museum website lists the F101B as having a ceiling of 52,000 ft.
The F104C is listed as having a ceiling of 58,000 ft.

 

[plan_D]

Bill Gunston's Encyclopedia of World Air Power lists the F-104C at 55,000 feet. While the sources for the F-101B across the internet vary greatly, I believe Boeing.com list it as 38,000 feet.

 

[lesofprimus]

Huh??

 

[plan_D]

F-101B ceilings range from 38,900 feet ( http://www.answers.com/topic/f-101-voodoo ), 52,100 feet ( http://www.museumofaviation.org/aircraftCollection/fighters/06-f101f.htm ), 54,800 feet ( http://www.marchfield.org/f101b.htm ) to 58,400 feet ( http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f101_9.html )...

take your pick.

 

[lesofprimus]

Here you go, straight from the site of the manufacture...


In Operation Firewall on Dec. 12, 1957, an F-101A fighter-bomber set a world speed record of 1,207 mph. In Operation Sun Run in 1957, an RF-101 raced from Los Angeles to New York and back to Los Angeles in a record time of 6 hours, 46 minutes.

The last Voodoo retired in 1986.


First flight: Sept. 29, 1954
Wingspan: 39 feet 8 inches
Length: 67 feet 5 inches
Height: 18 feet
Weight: 48,120 pounds
Speed: Max. 1,009 mph
Ceiling: 38,900 ft
Power plant: Two 15,000-pound-thrust Pratt Whitney J57-P-13 axial-flow turbojets.
Accommodation: One crew
Armament: Four 20 mm cannons, low-altitude bombing systems, 1,620-pound bomb or 3,721-pound nuclear bomb


http://www.mdc.com/history/mdc/voodoo.htm

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I have a Gunston book that states the -104 with a service ceiling of 58,000 feet clean. Considering he combined all models, I assume this is for the Italian "S" model...

 

[plan_D]

38,900 feet it is then, thank you, les. And that's probably true, FBJ. But I must say, all this pussy footing around with the F-101 figures is making me laugh. After all, even at 54,000 feet it couldn't intercept a Bear flying at 57,000 feet.

And the Lightning is still recorded as going up to 88,000 feet ...and that's probably not even absolute ceiling.

 

[lesofprimus]

Ur quite welcome...

 

[syscom3]

I think the F101 ceiling is low because its listing the prototype mid 50's model which was under powered.

I seriously doubt the USAF would have accepted a fighter in the 50's that had a ceiling of less than 50,000 ft.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think the F101 ceiling is low because its listing the prototype mid 50's model which was under powered.

I seriously doubt the USAF would have accepted a fighter in the 50's that had a ceiling of less than 50,000 ft.

The service ceiling for the TU-20 is 44,000 feet. That means that's the max altitude it could fly and sustain flight with a given payload. If North America or Europe would of been attacked in the late 50s or early 60s, I doubt TU-20s would of been flying that high....

 

[plan_D]

The F-101 was never intended to be a high-level interceptor though. For the kind of missions it was intended for high-level wasn't really needed. Especially since the F-101 was actually a stop-gap until better aircraft came along.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Nonskimmer's picky point for the evening:

The Voodoo was never built under licence in Canada, contrary to some web sources. The CF-101's were all purchased from the US.


Thank you very much.

 

[plan_D]

I have the Tu-20s operational ceiling being 41,000 feet, FBJ. However, for the purpose of this discussion, we must add the M-4/201 to the target for intercept which had an operational ceiling of 56,000 feet.

Did anyone say the CF-101 was produced in Canada, NS? If I did, I must apologise. After all, it does say in my Gunston book that they were all purchased.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Did anyone say the CF-101 was produced in Canada, NS? If I did, I must apologise. After all, it does say in my Gunston book that they were all purchased.

No, sorry. It was that site that Les posted the link to. I've seen it stated on another site too somewhere. False!

Didn't mean to interrupt the discussion fellas. Just being my usual smart-ass self.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think the F101 ceiling is low because its listing the prototype mid 50's model which was under powered.

If you want to consider the XF-88 as the Voodoo prototype, it was powered by J-34s. The real-live F-101 was powered by J-57s with the C model carrying J-57-P-55s. I have several books showing a service Ceiling for the F-101C and CF-101B at 52,000 and 51,000 respectively...

 

[plan_D]

Okay, it's fine. I must reinforce that with;

"Following service with ADC (later ADCOM) 66 of these aircraft [TF-101Bs and F-101Bs) were transferred to the Royal Canadian Air Force, which shares with ADC defence responsibility within the NORAD command. When modified for Canadian use they were designated F-101F and TF-101F respectively, but were redesignated in RCAF as CF-101B and CF-101F. They were exchanged subsequently for 66 similar aircraft with more advanced electronics."

 

[pbfoot]

i really don't think the americans would produce an aircraft not capable of intercepting a 1940s ju 86 and really hope i don't get busted for filing erroneous flight plans and all those years we tricked norad . worse yet the crew duped us no wonder we questioned the ancestry of pilots

 

[syscom3]

say what?