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Erich said:Nonskimmer, your thoughts on Germany still hold water for the 75-90 plus age group whether here or in Deutschland. Very common logic for some. Germany should of been blown off the face of the earth and also should of Japan, not with 2 atomic/atom bombs, but a systematic pulverization if you will............. I have some real issues with former pres. FDR but won;t bore you with that.
RG_Lunatic said:the lancaster kicks ass said:i don't think they should be put there if they were ordered to............
It depends on how heinous the acts were. I don't care if the Japanese soldiers were ordered to kill all the men and rape and kill all the women in Nanking or not. Nor do I think it's relevant that the German soldiers were ordered to take jews, including the elderly and children, and shoot them in the back of the head and bury them in a ditch in Poland. Such acts are unforgivable and having been "ordered" to do them is no excuse. If we accept such excuses, then only the actual leader (Hitler or Hirohito) could ever be considered actually responsible.
Furthermore, it defeats the point. The point is to say to posterity that if you commit such acts, even if ordered to do so, you and your descendants will have to live with the shame of your actions.
"I was ordered to do it" is not an acceptable justification. It cannot be!
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RG_Lunatic said:What it would mean is that future generations would, most likely, change their last names. How many Hitler's, Goering's, or Capone's have you met?
This means a person committing such acts is effectively cut off from the memories of their descendants. The thought of such a fate may deter individuals in the future, or at least make them think twice before participating in such acts. And this is worth the minor costs to a few individuals who must either change their last names or live with public knowledge that their ancestors were evil.
I'm not saying we should punish the descendants in any way, just that the individuals who commit such acts should be remembered and vilified appropriately. That may have some minor consequences for their descendants, but that's the breaks. Had their ancestors succeeded in their endeavors, they would not have had a second thought about enjoying the benefits that befell them, that's for sure!
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DerAdlerIstGelandet said:I completely disagree with you. How can you ask the descendants to carry the burdon. Basically you are saying that I and all of my family should be labeled Nazis and pay for what has happened. because my Grandfather served in the Wehrmacht. He did not commit any crimes but he seved in a military that was. If this is what you are meaning then you are a hippocrat, ignorant and filled with BS. Then you need to pay for the Native Americans and the Slavary. But you have already forgotten about that too haven't you? You can not ask todays generation to pay for wrongs done in the past. My family as long with every German family I know are good people and mean no harm to anyone, yet you think they should be condemded forever? Get real man, and before you condemn Germany and Japans modern generation think of your own past.
Erich said:Les is correct, lets look at what the so-called mild mannered reproter has done since 9-11 over in Iraq.,,,, true brought us reality in grim form when we enetered Baghdad, shooting up anything that looked suspicious but then whate happened to the support these noble lads gave our boys ?
Hmmmmmmm abu grave as i call it. The bak lash with the one Marine when he shot the guy "faking" death, all recorded, and the news clown was ballsy enough to include everything he could on the soldier, his unit, CO and the whole incident for all the world to see and give the military a terrible name. It has been in our face since we entered Baghdad, even slowly but surely capturing that turd "Sadamn", isolated certain black guard units and also smashing "Al-quesida" from time to time. So much for the media promoting a will of good from our side and the fredom we are trying to present for these poor Iraqui people. I remember Vietnam all too well, and it is really hard I will say to differentiate between the north/south Vietnamese just as Eagle would probably say, Iraqui, Iranian and Syrian, lebanese. you can't tell even with the dress of the locals, and out of countrymen. You are always on the go, intense, covering your back and your buddies 24/7. It's terrible and it sucks, and it's war........
ok I am ranting....I have conflicting opinion's of our move in the mid-east but we are over there now and we need to do our best to get things under control under this administration and support our guys 1000 %. If we don't do this then we are just slime as we were back in the late 1960's-early 70's when Nixon called us all home.....with a job unfinished
yo Huh ~ Erich
RG_Lunatic said:People will think twice about engaging in massacres and such if they believe their descendants will have to live with the shame of their acts.
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Medvedya said:RG_Lunatic said:People will think twice about engaging in massacres and such if they believe their descendants will have to live with the shame of their acts.
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Yeah right. That is a stupendously naive hope.
But aside from that, I've just been reading through all of the above, and found I could draw a parallel with my great-grandfather, who fought in the Boer War.
Do I deny that we created the very first concentration camps in that conflict and that many Boer woman and children died in them?
Emphatically not! I studied the conflict a while ago in a history module, and like to feel I have a reasonable and unbiased grasp of the causes and effects of that conflict.
Its relationship to my personal family history is tenuous at best however. Regardless of the questionable nature of the Boer War, he went out there as a Corporal in the East Lancs Regiment. He wasn't a General, or a politician, or a business executive. He just went and did his bit and was lucky enough to get to come home. So, I'm not going to be chucking his medals or ammo bag in the dustbin anytime soon, and no, I don't 'live with shame'. I'm actually rather proud of him.
Incidentally, afterwards he joined the St. Johns Ambulance, and would treat people who were unable to pay for the doctor, which would suggest he was more into patching people up than killing them.
But you can't put that sort of thing on a spreadsheet can you?