190D12 /13 question

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by thedab, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. thedab

    thedab Member

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  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    The Fw 190 D-12 never went into production. Three 'versuch' (prototype is an approximate translation) aircraft were built. The 'Technical Directive of the Reichsmarschall No.4' dated 11 March 1945 is explicit.

    "5. The variants Fw 190 D-12 and D-13 will be merged, provided this will actually result in a reduction in the number of variants. The number of variants of the Ta 152 will be reduced to a minimum."

    As for the D-13, there is OKL General Quartiermeister document from April 1945, reporting on the previous month, which states that by 7 April 1945 there were two D-13s in service with the Luftwaffe.
    Circumstantial evidence like the highest 'werknummer' (836017) found on an extant aircraft (Franz Gotz's 'Yellow 10' of JG 26, surrendered at Flensburg) suggests that at least seventeen D-13s were in fact completed.

    There is little certain about production taking place during the cataclysm of Germany's final defeat.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  3. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    13 D-11
    4 D-11 EZ 42
    2 D-13
    -> production known until and including March 45

    You can't really assume production just based on Wernummern, not all of them may have been filled as some may have been lost to bombing or not finished as lacking parts/engines etc.
     
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  4. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    It's circumstantial evidence. The fact is that a werknummer ending in 17 was completed. The assumption is that the previous numbers may also have been completed. We know that many were found as sub-assemblies at various plants.

    The 'US Technical Industrial Intelligence Committee-Aeronautical Subcommittee' reported on 30 complete D-13 fuselages found at the Nordenham plant after the end of the war.

    Another snappily named committee, the 'German Aircraft Industry Combined Intelligence Objectives Sub Committee' found a completed D-13 in an old hangar at Blexen. This aircraft had not been accepted by the Luftwaffe as far as is known and it was assumed it had been taken to Blexen for a test flight.
    This committee also reported on finding various sub assemblies, some destroyed by bombing, at Hastedt, Hemelingen, Neuenland and Lemwerder.

    You can't assume that no more D-13s were completed after March, it is probable that some were, though it is impossible to prove either way.

    As I said, nothing is certain.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  5. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Oddly enough the highest number photographically recorded is "17" for the D-11 220017 and D-13 is 836017, however Jerry Crandall reports 836018 in his Vol.2 W.Nr. listing for JG2
     
  6. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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    So if the last know WNr is known for completed a/c, then there has to have been 169 Ta152Hs built as the last know WNr for completed Ta152Hs was 150169.
     
  7. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Except that there is a gap from 040 to 167 in Ta 152 werknummer assignation for aircraft produced at Cottbus before production ended there in January 1945.

    In the case of the D-13 a non sequential gap is less likely between 001 and 018. It's possible, nothing is certain.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  8. silence

    silence Active Member

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    Ok, new law: all countries that go to war are NOT allowed to destroy documentation of any sort in which we of this forum may be interested. This law is subject to revision at any time, and all revisions may be grandfathered in.

    That is all. Please return to your regular/debate/discussion/gripe session.
     
  9. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I'd vote for that law :)

    Some people have taken that 169 figure, added it to the V numbers built at Sorau and completely erroneously decided that 200 odd Ta 152s were produced :)

    When I said 'nothing is certain' I am certain that this is wrong!

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    A good law, pass it!
     
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