249 Sqdn Hurricane ace H.J.Davidson and Hurricat pilot search

[Airframes]

Great stuff Karen. I've just been reading a bit more about the CAM ships, and the early escort carrier, where your Uncle is mentioned again. This is in the book 'Focke Wulf Condor - Scourge of the Atlantic'. The first time I came across his name was in another book I have, currently loaned to a friend, covering the life story of Louis Strange, an exceptional airman from WW1, who was in charge of the development of the catapult launches at Speke (Liverpool).
Bill, I have pictures of some of the 'Empire' series CAM ships in the book mentioned above, if you need them.

 

[karenmaf]

Hi 'airframes' I'll have to look up those books thanks, the only book I knew of was the Hurricane Aces one mentioned in an earlier post. If your interested in any more info from my grandfathers log book please ask, I obviously have all the details from his Battle of Britain flights too.
Karen

 

[Airframes]

Karen, the 'Condor' book is by Kenneth Poolman, first published in 1978, by Macdonald and Janes, re-published 1979 by Book Club Associates, no ISBN number.
Not having the other book to hand, I don't have the details, but I think the title is 'Rogue Airman'.
The part covering the involvement with the catapult trials with Hurricanes at Speke, is just one small episode in the long and fascinating career of Louis Strange, who was also involved in the formation of No1 Parachute Training School, the beginning of British Airborne Forces, at Ringway, Manchester, as well as being a fighter pilot in the First World War, and the Second, plus many other 'adventures' which beggar belief.
Cheers,
Terry.

 

[N4521U]

I was looking up in Google the serial number, the unit number, every which way to find V7129 but no real luck until I found a link to Youtube and a clip of a CAM launch. The ship is docked and the plane shot off the bow, took a little dip, it would with no forward speed, and the code VY*X was visible on the port side. Searched That one, and bubkiss. Then I found the cover of a book called The Hurricats, couldn't see inside that one but looks promising.

For me, anything I can get would be much appreciated. I have a list of 30+ Davidson pilots in various services, RAAF, RAF, RCAF, US and your grandfather with all this information from you is the most complete, and like you said, the most interesting. It sounds like he was a bit of an adventurist, believed in the "what if's", he had to to raise his hand for the first CAM shot.

I do have several pdf's I have printed from the net of accounts of HJ's service, and a crash he survived. There were accounts in the Defiant crash that there was a crew in the turret, but then there is no name for the gunner. That would be a mystery, like no real details about the operation he was on. I hope we can find out the details. It's all very in-ter-esting, raising the eyebrows as it's said. Ha, this is what my wife does with her second graders when they read something in-ter-esting!

Bill

 

[vikingBerserker]

This is some really cool info!

 

[Wayne Little]

It is cool, welcome aboard Karen!

 

[N4521U]

Isn't this just the greatest! I just hope we can find the real story behind H.J.'s crash, and what kind of duties he was doing.

 

[Airframes]

Bill, the Hurricane coded VY-X would be a former 85 Squadron Mk1. The first aircraft used, and those first converted to Sea Hurricane Mk1, where weary aircraft, which had normally served in the Battle of Britain, and been retired to second-line duties or put in storage. Unsurprisingly, as these were to be 'Use once and throw away', the 'Powers that Be' were very reluctant to supply brand new aircraft which ultimately would be used once, then either abandoned in flight, or ditched at sea.
As far as I am aware, there were no individual unit codes allocated to 'Hurricats', with allocations to CAM ships being from whatever was available, although it may be that later, when time allowed, an individual number or single letter replaced the original squadron codes, the latter painted out.
I've 'lost' my RAF Squadron codes listing from my computer somehow, so can't double check, but I have photos of other 'Hurricats' bearing full codes, being loaded on board, on the catapult, and being launched. I think that, as with the ex-85 Sqn machine, the codes displayed are from previous service, and will try to verify this when I eventually retrieve the codes lists.
As for the Defiant, there is a possibility that this was a target tug, without a rear turret, but with a place for the winch operator (not all Defiant tugs were two seat). The location/name of the departure airfield, and place of crash, could possibly help to identify the type, and duties being undertaken at the time.
In the Log Book, it was normal practice to start a new page, or part way down a page, when posted to a different squadron, and if there is no part entry for this sortie, which there probably won't be in the circumstances, then the nearest entries immediately prior may indicate departure airfield, destination, aircraft type and reason for sortie. This might provide some clues.

 

[N4521U]

Always a wealth of information...... love it.

You are so right. I have read the first conversion by Hawker was a "repaired" aircraft given them to modify for a cat test launch. This would be the Z7129 in the log book page Karen has provided us. In everything I have read the squadron this plane came from has not been noted. I have found several pictures of the launch ramp on dirt! So I now have an idea of what the first launch may have looked like at Speke! Hoorah!

Later when the Sea Hurricanes were being built, the tail kook was left off for the CAM planes. I have see the tail section of these with a little cut out for the hook in the lower fin in front of the tail wheel, which is missing on the Hrricats. There is also what looks like a thru tube just behind the roundel at the lower quarter of it, similar to the thru tube of a P-51 for lifting. There is a Sea Hurricane flying in the UK which has little rollers on each side of the radiator for straps and has the same thru tube. But this plane lacks two attachment points, one just behind the lndg gear picot point and one further back on the wing and a little more inboard. On the Hurricat pictures I have seen, these have swing down covers hinged at the front. I would guess to close as the plane left the cat supports.

Interesting about the tug business. There is listed in the accident report all of the information you are suggesting. H.J.D. was not supposed to be on duty that day, and filled in for another pilot. I think this is what Karen is trying to find out as to why.

I'll have to start looking up 85 Sqn to see if I can find that ser no and a picture. Cheers mate.

 

[N4521U]

Have found this.

Block 3/G, Third Gloster Produced Block

Serial Range V6533 - V6582 (50) Mk. I, V6600 - V6649 (50) Mk. I, V6665 - V6704 (40) Mk. I, V6722 - V6761 (40)
Mk. I, V6776 - V6825 (50) Mk. I, V6840 - V6889 (50) Mk. I, V6913 - V6962 (50) Mk. I, V6979 - V7028 (50) Mk. I,
V7042 - V7081 (40) Mk. I, V7099 - V7138 (40) Mk. I, V7156 - V7195 (40) Mk. I, W9110 - W9159 (50) Mk. I, W9170 -
W9209 (40) Mk. I, W9215 - W9244 (30) Mk. I, W9260 - W9279 (20) Mk. I, W9290 - W9329 (40) Mk. I, W9340 -
W9359 (20) Mk. I, Z4022 - Z4071 (50) Mk. I, Z4085 - Z4119 (35) Mk. I, Z4161 - Z4205 (45) Mk. I, Z4223 - Z4272 (50)
Mk. I, Z4308 - Z4327 (20) Mk. I, Z4347 - Z4391 (45) Mk. I, Z4415 - Z4434 (20) Mk. I, Z4482 - Z4516 (35) Mk. I,
Z4532 - Z4581 (50) Mk. I, Z4603 - Z4652 (50) Mk. I, Z4686 - Z4720 (35) Mk. I, Z4760 - Z4809 (50) Mk. I, Z4832 -
Z4876 (45) Mk. I, Z4920 - Z4939 (20) Mk. I, Z4940 - Z4969 (30) Mk. IIA, Z4987 - Z4989 (3) Mk. IIA, Z4990 - Z5006
(17) Mk. IIB, Z5038 - Z5087 (50) Mk. IIB, Z5117 - Z5161 (45) Mk. IIB, Z5202 - Z5236 (35) Mk. IIB, Z5252 - Z5271
(20) Mk. IIB, Z5302 - Z5351 (50) Mk. IIB, Z5376 - Z5395 (20) Mk. IIB, Z5434 - Z5483 (50) Mk. IIB, Z5529 - Z5563
(35) Mk. IIB, Z5580 - Z5629 (50) Mk. IIB, Z5649 - Z5693 (45) Mk. IIB - Total 1,700

Third production batch of 1,700 aircraft built by Gloster Aircraft Co, to contract 85730/40/23a. Powered by Rolls-Royce Merlin III or Rolls-Royce Merlin XX engines, driving Rotol or De-Havilland three blade variable
pitch propellers. Aircraft delivered between July 1940 and August 1941, average rate of production 4-5 aircraft per day.

 

[karenmaf]

Most of this is going over my head I'm afraid but here's the last pages of my grandfathers log book and the letter his father received. 285 squadron was based in Wrexham and he crashed at Calveley aerodrome, Cheshire. Hope this helps in the quest for answers.
Karen

 

[Airframes]

Great info there Karen. This confirms things; 285 Squadron performed Anti-Aircraft Cooperation duties, which meant that they towed target drogues for the AA guns to fire at and, at the time of the fatal crash, the Squadron was equipped with Defiants. Some fighters were also used, for 'fast' passes, for the gunners to practice tracking only, without firing.
The old airfield at Calveley is not far from where I live (about 8 miles 'as the crow flies'), and not much is left, being bisected by the M56 Motorway. In flying time, it's about 20 minutes from Wrexham, if that, depending of course on speed etc. It's possible that this flight was for the purposes of exercising the AA defences to the west of Manchester, when engine problems occurred, with an attempted diversion into Calveley, a night fighter airfield which, at one time, also had Defiant night fighters. Or it could have just been a local positioning flight to Calveley.
From the eye-witness description of the crash, it seems the aircraft, low on power, stalled in a turn to line-up with the airfield, presumably at low altitude, from which recovery was not possible.
I'll see if I can find anything further, but it's unlikely.

 

[Airframes]

Just done a bit more digging Bill. The 'Hurricats' did have their own codes eventually. The MSFU (Merchant Ship Flying Unit) were eventually allocated the code letters 'NJ', which were displayed in the same form as 'normal' fighter squadrons, for example 'NJ-L'. This code is clearly seen on the fuselage of a Hurricane, in a photo, being loaded aboard, and then on the catapult, of a CAM ship, and I'll try to decipher the serial number.
These code letters were also used by 207 Sqn, RAF, but as this was a bomber squadron, with Manchesters, followed by Hampdens, and then Lancasters during this period, there would be no confusion with identities.
Hope this helps.

 

[N4521U]

This is all great information, and really peaks my interest. One of his planes Will be my subject in a group build.
We need to find a Fulmer N4016, Swordfish L5996, Hurricane V6639, Z7145, 7129, W9208. Any one of these.
How cool. It's getting narrowed down.

 

[Airframes]

That's interesting, as Fulmers were also used on the convoy runs, being mounted on Catapult Ships, as opposed to CAM ships. The difference being, the Ships were Royal Navy, with FAA aircrew, and the catapult was mounted amidships. This was swung outboard, facing over the side, for launches.

 

[N4521U]

Sorry for the confusion, they used the Fulmar and Swordfish for initiation flights before the Hurricats were set up to launch. H.J.D. had just a few training launches in these.

Funny enough I found one of the Hurricanes Davidson flew and it was one of Claves illustrations, L1889, but was not a launch plane.

 

[Airframes]

Ah, understood. The Fulmers would be at Farnborough then, with the first launch being undertaken by Louis Strange. When the experimental and training unit was established at Speke, Liverpool (now John Lennon International Airport), the Hurricanes were used there, and as far as I know, without consulting 'Rogue Airman', Fulmers were not present. The first launches, as at Farnborough, were from a static catapult on the airfield, and then subsequently from a ship in the Mersey estuary.

 

[MiTasol]

Sorry for all the jiberish beforehand..... Bill

That is what happens when you contaminate your Bundy with coke