The Hurricane was obsolete in 1940 and should have been replaced by Typhoons or Tornados
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The Hurricane was obsolete in 1940 and should have been replaced by Typhoons or TornadosA Hurricane II and a Ki43 in 1942/3 is basically the same in 1944 so the case and argument stands
Terrific. We'll just go without for a couple of years, until the Typhoon's ready. Far better that than the embarrassment of been seen wearing last-years model.The Hurricane was obsolete in 1940 and should have been replaced by Typhoons or Tornados
Not the point I was making, as per the planning in 1938/39 both the Hurricane and the Merlin should have been replaced by 1942. It was the failure of the Typhoon/Tornado and improvements to the Merlin that meant the Hurricane being kept in service long past its sell by date.Terrific. We'll just go without for a couple of years, until the Typhoon's ready. Far better that than the embarrassment of been seen wearing last-years model.
Not the point I was making, as per the planning in 1938/39 both the Hurricane and the Merlin should have been replaced by 1942. It was the failure of the Typhoon/Tornado and improvements to the Merlin that meant the Hurricane being kept in service long past its sell by date.
The Russians modified their Hurricane IIb's to have two 20 mm and two 0.5 in guns. It improved turning circle and roll rate and had twice the firepower of a Bf 109F. They used it successfully in the first five months of 1942, so it definitely wasn't obsolete at that time, exactly the same time when it was having problems in the Far East.Many of the Hurricanes used in the CBI had two of their 20MM guns removed. Of course that probably was to help them when carrying bombs.
In 1941/42 the Hurricane II will be taking on the long wing Ki-43-1, in 42/43 the long wing Ki-43-II as opposed to 43/44 the short wing Ki-43-II-Kai so you need the Spitfire Vc to combat it and 44/45, the Spitfire VIII to combat the short wing Ki-43-III-Kai. So there are differences in armament, roll rate and max dive speed and top speed to deal with.A Hurricane II and a Ki43 in 1942/3 is basically the same in 1944 so the case and argument stands
It was a slow process from the Vulture and Sabre being delayed to having fewer and later to then having no vultures at all and the Sabre being used solely on the Typhoon.The Hurricane and Spitfire were to be replaced by the Typhoon/Tornado.
The Merlin was used in other types (such as the Halifax and, eventually, the Lancaster), so was not on the chopping block.
The Hurricane was obsolete from the beginning of their introduction in the theatre of war until the end. They were even given a hard time by the Ki27 an aircraft they should have run rings aroundIn 1941/42 the Hurricane II will be taking on the long wing Ki-43-1, in 42/43 the long wing Ki-43-II as opposed to 43/44 the short wing Ki-43-II-Kai so you need the Spitfire Vc to combat it and 44/45, the Spitfire VIII to combat the short wing Ki-43-III-Kai. So there are differences in armament, roll rate and max dive speed and top speed to deal with.
The Hurricane was obsolete at the start of the campaign and even more obsolete at the end. The difference in the Ki43 only magnified the problem and its worth remembering that the Hurricanes had a difficult time dealing with the Ki27In 1941/42 the Hurricane II will be taking on the long wing Ki-43-1, in 42/43 the long wing Ki-43-II as opposed to 43/44 the short wing Ki-43-II-Kai so you need the Spitfire Vc to combat it and 44/45, the Spitfire VIII to combat the short wing Ki-43-III-Kai. So there are differences in armament, roll rate and max dive speed and top speed to deal with.
Sure it had difficulty dealing with the Ki-27 when it was carrying long range tanks. It fared better without them and when it had adequate warning of incoming raids. The AVG did brilliantly. They had two things going for them. The P-40 was a superior plane and the Chinese Observer Corps tracked incoming raids from the moment they took off from their airfields. There was no British Observer Corps in either Burma or Malaya and the Indian Observer Corps was lousy. The Sea Hurricane and Hurricane between them shot down about 6000 enemy aircraft during the war in British and Commonwealth service, that's not what you call an obsolete plane. In the Far East, they encountered difficulties with radar effectiveness, a complete lack of a working observer corps, European fighter tactics and an armament that should have been halved and tropical filters that could have been improved on. Yes, lots of problems that resulted in a 'shambles'. On the ground, the army lacked transports to re-supply units that had been cut off, and no clear USMC like strategy of 'an advance to the sea' as occurred ten years later in Korea. Obsolete, definitely not.The Hurricane was obsolete from the beginning of their introduction in the theatre of war until the end. They were even given a hard time by the Ki27 an aircraft they should have run rings around
The Hurricane was obsolete at the start of the campaign and even more obsolete at the end. The difference in the Ki43 only magnified the problem and its worth remembering that the Hurricanes had a difficult time dealing with the Ki27
I've seen that before, its very good.
Clearly you are allowed your own opinion and you have a belief which you will not change despite all the evidence and the views of the pilots at the time. If you haven't already I suggest you read the Bloody Shambles series which should open your eyes a little.Sure it had difficulty dealing with the Ki-27 when it was carrying long range tanks. It fared better without them and when it had adequate warning of incoming raids. The AVG did brilliantly. They had two things going for them. The P-40 was a superior plane and the Chinese Observer Corps tracked incoming raids from the moment they took off from their airfields. There was no British Observer Corps in either Burma or Malaya and the Indian Observer Corps was lousy. The Sea Hurricane and Hurricane between them shot down about 6000 enemy aircraft during the war in British and Commonwealth service, that's not what you call an obsolete plane. In the Far East, they encountered difficulties with radar effectiveness, a complete lack of a working observer corps, European fighter tactics and an armament that should have been halved and tropical filters that could have been improved on. Yes, lots of problems that resulted in a 'shambles'. On the ground, the army lacked transports to re-supply units that had been cut off, and no clear USMC like strategy of 'an advance to the sea' as occurred ten years later in Korea. Obsolete, definitely not.
IIRC, the Malta Spitfires initially used twinned 45 gallon Hurricane drop tanks.Not at the start. On the Spitfire Vb, the 30 gal was the combat tank, the 45 gal was the drop tank and the 90 gal was the ferry tank. Its only in 1942 with the Spitfire Vc that you get the 170 gal ferry tank with an extra 29 gal tank behind the pilot. The problem with the 45/90 gal tanks was they didn't always detach properly. I think you'll find that the Spitfires in the Med were rigged up with the Kittyhawks drop tanks as detachment was more reliable and the desert survival kit behind the pilot was re-arranged to allow the use of the additional 29 gal tank. The BPF never used the slipper tanks. They used the drop tanks from RAAF Kittyhawks. The RAF don't have Kittyhawks in India, so none of their drop tanks.
The same argument can be made regarding the F4F-4 and the Zero...The Hurricane had 0 cards to play against a KI43. It couldn't turn nearly as well, it climbed slower, didn't dive that much better, and had about the same top speed. If a KI43 and a Hurricane saw each other from the same altitude, neither with an advantage, with equal pilots, the Hurricane was probably done. All the KI43 has to do is start climbing and turning and soon he's behind the Hurricane. Hurricane MIGHT be able to dive and run. Maybe. A P40 can always roll over and dive away(with any altitude), he's pretty fast on the level below 15,000 and I believe quite a bit tougher than a Hurricane.
A KI43 is at least a handful of not better than a Spitfire V. I'd rather fight a KI43 in a Dauntless than a Hurricane, at least I have a radial engine and a rear gunner
The Hurricane was obsolete from the beginning of their introduction in the theatre of war until the end. They were even given a hard time by the Ki27 an aircraft they should have run rings around
The Hurricane was obsolete at the start of the campaign and even more obsolete at the end. The difference in the Ki43 only magnified the problem and its worth remembering that the Hurricanes had a difficult time dealing with the Ki27