Thumpalumpacus
Major
*sigh*
A look at German fighter Ace kill claims
- Thread starter RCAFson
- Start date
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5 VA and 17 VA were the only VAs in Hungary in this time period. There would be no point checking other VAs because they would definitely be out of the 240km range you set.
The 8VA was present too, however they only lost less than a dozen aircraft over the country and did not operate near II./JG 52.
We looked at all Soviet units which would of had a chance of being remotely close to where the 8 pilots made their claims. About 50ish units between the 5 and 17 VA, then on top of that the 18 VA (ADD), then PVO units and then the American units.
As a matter of fact, we even included a map of where these units operated at the VA level on p.55 so the Respected Reader could understand that there is no use in reviewing 8VA losses when an action occurred near Szekesfehervar.
So yes, we did cover all our bases.
8 VA was so minor I forgot about them lol
CHen10
no need to apologies 
They played such an insignificant roll over Hungary that we even debated if they should be put into the book. Ultimately we decided that for thoroughness sake we will write a few lines about them. 8 VA aircraft were not shot down by day-time fighters over Hungary. What brought them down was flak, just a few Il-2s. Interestingly, these appear to have been the only Il-2s with the 37mm cannons over the country.8 VA covered the 4th Ukrainian Front.
5 VA covered the 2nd Ukrainian Front
17 VA covered the 3rd Ukrainian Front.
L Luft.4 are Romanian aircraft losses listed in Soviet VAs? After they switched sides I was wondering if that would be the case.
On 22 December 1944 Hungarian Bf-109 flown by Krascsenics had a victory claim that he never officially made against a Romanian Bf-109. I am unsure of where to find the Romanian losses so I was wondering if they would be with a VA?
Occasionally they would be listed (not in a detailed way however). The 1 Romanian Air Corps was subordinated to the 5VA. My good friend Dénes Bérnad assisted with the Romanian aircraft sections of the book. We spoke extensively about Verified Victories at his house a few summers ago. He went the the archives in Romanian and has a listing for the losses during the war (a little more than 400 aircraft from what I recall).
IDing aircraft is very difficult especially at closing speeds no matter how sure one is when looking at side profiles. Bernd Barbas even conveyed to me that Hartmann had a blue-on-blue incident over Hungary as recalled by Ewald. This is the second blue-on-blue that I have notes on for him.
Is there a way you could ask Dénes Bérnad about any Romanian Bf-109 losses on 22 December 1944?
Also the Hartmann story sounds interesting. Did he have an unconfirmed claim against a Romanian Bf-109? If so do you know any details about it?
I can.
The only Romanian claim for the pilots in the book belongs Helmut Lipfert. That is discussed in his chapter.
Hartmann's blue-on-blue is described in the first page of his respective chapter.
Thanks
A bit random this, but do you know if Beregszási Sándor's Bf-109 wreck will be displayed in the Szolnok Aviation Museum? I plan to visit the museum at some point.
If this is the wreck pulled from Lake Balaton recently then no. It is going to be displayed at the HM in Budapest owing to its significance (Hungarian built aircraft/engine flown by a Hungarian recovered in Hungary). I was invited by the head of the Szolnok museum over for the recovery but I could not attend owing to my work schedule, he even set aside a spot in the boat for me !
What is the HM? I would love to go there as well as the Szolnok museum.
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- #195
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Escuadrilla Azul
Tech Sergeant
- 1,824
- Feb 27, 2020
As I said groundhog 3.0…
Neither side will convince the other.
Just Schmidt
Senior Airman
There can be only one.
Escuadrilla Azul
Tech Sergeant
- 1,824
- Feb 27, 2020
This article:
Хартман над Яссами: фантазии в погоне за «мечами»
Мнимые победы аса №1: раздували ли свои достижения «эксперты» люфтваффе?
warspot.ru
I do not consider this article to be a serious research—too many assumptions.
Important note:
Hartmann attracted a lot of attention from post-Soviet historians, researchers, journalists, and aviation/mil history fans after the first books about the Luftwaffe became available in Russian in the 1990s. For a certain period, the discussion about him in Russian language space was more or less balanced. But then the censorship in RF returned, "historical" laws were adopted and
"patriotic" propaganda became hysterical. I don't expect to see professional material from a Russia-based author until a new era of Perestroika and Glasnost'.
But maybe I'm biased.
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