A question about propeller torque during takeoffs

renrich · Jan 14, 2009

My brother has a Saratoga that was equipped with a two blade prop but during a recent overhaul he had a three blade installed. He told me that he felt the airplane was a little faster and smoother and climbed better but otherwise no change. Next time I talk with him I will ask if he noticed any change in torque effect.

FLYBOYJ · Jan 14, 2009

renrich said:
My brother has a Saratoga that was equipped with a two blade prop but during a recent overhaul he had a three blade installed. He told me that he felt the airplane was a little faster and smoother and climbed better but otherwise no change. Next time I talk with him I will ask if he noticed any change in torque effect.

Please do, especially on take off roll out.

FLYBOYJ · Jan 14, 2009

Hey Bill - do you still own your A-36?

drgondog · Jan 14, 2009

FLYBOYJ said:
Hey Bill - do you still own your A-36?

Sadly, I not only do not own one anymore but can't even pass a physical. I sneak right seat time in a friend's King Aire and Baron but have not been in a Bonanza for 20years.

Joe - I actually liked the V-35 more from a sheer handling standpoint. The Fork Tail Dr. Killer just seemed more nimble - but I had all the toys on the A-36 including stormscope, color radar and Bendix Flight Director plus Collins package and EGT/CHT sensors for cruise fuel consumption. The guy I sold it to put a VLF Omega in it.

IIRC, the avionics were a lot more money than the airframe.

FLYBOYJ · Jan 14, 2009

drgondog said:
Sadly, I not only do not own one anymore but can't even pass a physical. I sneak right seat time in a friend's King Aire and Baron but have not been in a Bonanza for 20years.

Joe - I actually liked the V-35 more from a sheer handling standpoint. The Fork Tail Dr. Killer just seemed more nimble - but I had all the toys on the A-36 including stormscope, color radar and Bendix Flight Director plus Collins package and EGT/CHT sensors for cruise fuel consumption. The guy I sold it to put a VLF Omega in it.

IIRC, the avionics were a lot more money than the airframe.

Very cool on the A-36, too bad about your medical. I knew someone with an A-36 in the same state, all the "bells and whistles," and also agree about the V-35. I like the "Fork Tail Dr. Killer!

We also used to call them "The Buddy Holly Specials." I know kind of sick!

Its amazing how cheap you could get a V-35 for right now, especially one that's limited in avionics.

MikeGazdik · Jan 15, 2009

1) Would the added bite of one more blade on a prop possibly be the added "feel" of torque? In addition to the extra inertia of the blade itself.

2) When speaking of the V-tail Bonanza, I take from what you guys are saying, you guys don't think it is a problem or dangerous as it has been reported? The reason I ask is my dream is if I were to get a license, I would love to either own or be part owner of a V-tail or early Mooney. The prices are similar. If all goes perfect, I can retire in about 9 years, and by then I hope to certified and buying by then. If the money is right, that is my goal. IF.

drgondog · Jan 15, 2009

MikeGazdik said:
1) Would the added bite of one more blade on a prop possibly be the added "feel" of torque? In addition to the extra inertia of the blade itself.

2) When speaking of the V-tail Bonanza, I take from what you guys are saying, you guys don't think it is a problem or dangerous as it has been reported? The reason I ask is my dream is if I were to get a license, I would love to either own or be part owner of a V-tail or early Mooney. The prices are similar. If all goes perfect, I can retire in about 9 years, and by then I hope to certified and buying by then. If the money is right, that is my goal. IF.

If I was blindfolded and cranked up a 3 or four or 5 bladed prop I would not be able to tell any difference - unless it was way out of proportion to the airframe -

The V-35 was a superb plane. Having said that the V tail gave it some unusual dutch roll characteristics which is easy to live with, great response on controls and high performance - which killed some enthusiastic pilots with low time and low common sense who thought they had found the perfect aerobatic trainer!

I have never heard of a fatal structural failure when the aircraft was kept entirely within it's published Vmax limits.

IMHO - you would have a hard time finding a better airplane for cruising, taking a couple of passengers, just general delight..

drgondog · Jan 15, 2009

FLYBOYJ said:
Below is a pic of what they look like - The mount mfg who analyzed some of the mounts did say that there were manufacturing imperfections in some of the mounts we sent him. There's another company who has PMA on these parts and of course the prime mfg says theirs is superior (we had a mix from both sources). The bushing is actually in the center of the mounts (see photo).

.

Joe - what does a cross section of that mount look like?

FLYBOYJ · Jan 15, 2009

drgondog said:
Joe - what does a cross section of that mount look like?

Bill - the whole thing is like an oval donut, about 1 1/2 inches thick. In the "hole" there is a metal insert and that's where the bushing and then bolt go through. I would post more pics but right now I'm at DIA on my way to Alabama.

thewritingwriter89 · Jan 15, 2009

_viper_ said:
Hello!

I'm looking for a information about propeller driven airplanes and their behave on the takeoff run. Does the pilot apply diffrential braking when the throttle is being pushed fully open? Or how much pilots normally used rudder during takeoffs?

Generally, I try to use as little brakes as possible, even when taxiing. Rudder can do just as good a job (most of the time, unless you are trying to swing it around in a small radius) as brakes. Regarding your question about differential braking on takeoff, I have never done it, and quite frankly, it sounds a little dangerous. Right now, I only fly tricycle gear aircraft (but that will change when the scratch-built J-3 gets done ). Larger aircraft may need some differential braking, but that is completely out of my expertise.

On the takeoff roll, initially, a fair amount of rudder is needed to counter the aircraft's tendency to want to edge closer to the side of the runway due to low speed and torque. As the aircraft increases in speed, the rudder can be let off gradually. Once airborne, some rudder is used because speed is still relatively low and angle of attack higher than normal. Sometimes, in a turn with a really high angle of attack, the rudder must be held in the opposite direction of the turn to keep the ball centered.

Hope that answered some of your questions

TWW89

renrich · Jan 17, 2009

Finally spoke with my brother about the change from a two blade to three blade prop on the Saratoga. He said the difference on take off was only slight as far as the torque factor and that when climbing there was only a slight difference with P factor and that was because of a steeper climb angle.

drgondog · Jan 17, 2009

FLYBOYJ said:
Bill - the whole thing is like an oval donut, about 1 1/2 inches thick. In the "hole" there is a metal insert and that's where the bushing and then bolt go through. I would post more pics but right now I'm at DIA on my way to Alabama.

"Sounds" like an elastomeric bearing.

A question about propeller torque during takeoffs

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