A6M5 Model 52 Zero

[Balljoint]

OK here is a try using Google Chrome ...

Here is an article from Air International. I have some other files on the J2M but must FIND them before I can do anything with them.

Thanks, Tomo. Maybe I'll switch browsers ... seems like maybe it is indicated.

The bit about the Raiden breaking up in flight probably was the result of the prop shaft extension. The increased distance between the prop and motor mounts allowed the movement at the prop to increase setting up an often fatal progressive gyroscopic whirling oscillation. This wasn't fully recognized in general until the rather long turbo props engines had the same problem after the war.

 

[Hiromachi]

Could you be so kind and tell me Greg if you have found anything in your materials since we have spoken last time about Raiden dimensions and control surfaces ? I'm still very curious about the sizes and deflections of ailerons, rudder and elevator. And general wing structure.

After all Raiden being interceptor still possessed a lot maneuverability, so wing construction and control surfaces had to be designed very well but I failed to find any specific data, even in Japanese sources ...

Did you find anything Greg ?


Hiromachi

 

[GregP]

The guys who are responsible for the Raiden start with John Maloney. I asked him if he knew and he said, "You have to be kidding me!" He laughed and said he knows a lot about the Raiden's structure and systems (having been inside it many times, even within the fiselage), but is completely uninterested in the control system limits unless it is to be restored for flight. Since he first saw the Raiden, he has restored more than 25 aircraft and says nobody cares much until and unless it is time to restore for flight. Until fight restoration, they keep the outside of teh aircraft clean and presentable for public viewing.

Steve Hinton is concerned with the flying aircraft, not the static ones. He knows a lot about the Raiden, but not anything about control deflections.

Now I could move the controls up and down and measure the limits, but there is no certainty they would move to the limits if everything were hooked up and adjusted for flight. All you';d get are the physical limits of surface deflection, which is no real indication of flight limit stops ... other than they have to be same or less.

As for the general structure, there is this:

 

[Hiromachi]

Oh, well, shame. Still it doesnt give data for size of ailerons or rudder.
I tried to find manual for it in Japanese part of internet, or at least some specific data but Raiden is very hard to work on. I even found tests of two stage supercharger in Ha-115 II engine for Ki-43-III, but nothing about Raiden.

Very mysterious machine.


And thank you Greg, at least you tried and I really appreciate that. It's always a pleasure to speak with you

Hiro

 

[GregP]

I'll measure the surfaces and get back.

 

[Hiromachi]

I must say one thing, I am more than jealous that you can sy it like this : "I will measure it and get back", so many warbirds to see everyday. Hope one day I will be able to touch them myself ...

 

[GregP]

Come and visit and we can measure together. Better yet, come on May 3 - 4 and watch them all fly in our airshow. If you were around the planes and loved them as I do ... and you too, apparently ... you'd probably be a volunteer, too.

It is an accident of location mostly. I happen to live within a short distance of nine pretty good aviation museums. Planes of Fame, Yanks, March AFB, Edwards AFB, Lyons Museum, San Diego Air and Space Museum, the Midway, Palm Springs, and Castle AFB are all not too far away. The closest is Planes of Fame. Hence, I volunteer there.

It makes staying away fairly hard to do. It also takes a lot of time but, since I live alone, I have the time.

 

[Hiromachi]

For now it's not possible, both because Visa required to step on US soil and because flight to US is quite expensive. But one day ..

 

[GregP]

Well, when you do come over, let me know!

I'd love to see the Polish aviation museums too but, as you said, there IS the expense.

Maybe in the future.

Take care, - Greg

 

[GregP]

Hi Hiromachi,

OK, I went out to the museum and measured the control surfaces. If you Google a line drawing of the J2M, you can see how they look. I threw together a drawing below. The aileron is at the top left. The vertical line about 1/3 of the way from the right side of the aileron (at 30 inches) is where the 12-inch measurement just starts to taper down to the 8-inch length on the right side.

Measurements are in inches, but conversion is simple.

I see I rushed through it and left off two measurements. Ah well. The two arrows on the rudder trim tab are the horizontal measurements of the trim tab. It is 20 inches high, the top measures 2.25 inches and the bottom measures 6 inches.

If you look closely at a line drawing, the elevator is not quite a right angles to the centerline, but you can still get a very close estimate of the control surface areas by assuming it to be a right angle. The angle can't be more than a few degrees and the dogleg balance tab IS at right angles. On the elevator, the dogleg was not measured to 4 places ... it is 15/16 on an inch, which works out to 0.9375 in decimal inches. I measured the control surface opening, not from the hinge line.

I was 3/4 of the way home when I realized I had not measured the flaps! I'll get that Saturday ... slap me.

- Greg

 

[GregP]

Here is the aileron:

Here is the elevator:

Here is the rudder:

 

[GregP]

Here is the aileron at full up:

And here is the aileron at full down:

All for now.

 

[kettbo]

Great thread! I'll have to get (back) down there sometime

 

[GregP]

Hi Kettbo,

Any time, let me know and we can meet up.

I see you are in western Washington. My sister lives in Monroe and I get up around Seattle every once in awhile.

A few years back I went to the Stormbirds hangar and saw the new-build Me 262's at Payne Field. I also saw some tests on a 747 SP (short body) where they were doing minimum unstick speed tests dragging the tail bumper along the runway. I was having lunch on the balcony at the airport grill. At the time, they had a very pristine-looking de Havilland Comet on static display near the restaurant. It was great to see.

Loved looking at the heavily modified de Havilland Beavers at Kenmore Air Harbor at the north end of Lake Washington. They had ALL the mods, some even were turbine conversions.

 

[kettbo]

I am south of Tacoma a tad, near McChord Field and Ft Lewis. We have the Boeing MUSEUM of FLIGHT at the South end of Seattle and of course Paul Allen's collection in Everett. My local Historical Miniatures Gamers will be there this SAT. I have commitments. Sometime back I mentioned I spent the prime of my life in SoCal; middle school-mid 20s in the SoBay, Carson Gardena Torrance. I have friends to see before we all get too old! Some out Chino way.
Let me know if you are coming up this way. Also some planes in Olympia and a neighbor is a bit of a historian.

 

[GregP]

Cool, Kettbo, we'll have to get together sometime.

I was going through some pics just now and found an older pic of the panel of a Spitfire Mk IX that we used to display. It is now "home" in Texas. You don't see too many of those, so I thought I'd post it here:

 

[Shinpachi]

Nice work Greg
Thanks for sharing.

 

[kettbo]

I used to get a lot of cool pics from brother Ed, volunteer at Cavanaugh near DFW

 

[Hiromachi]

Oh, sorry, I was busy in a last few days. This is just epic Greg. I am grateful that you did it.

 

[GregP]

No problem and I can get the flap measurements tomorrow. All I have to do is REMEMBER to do it. Usually when I get there we start on the O-47 or YP-59A right away and sort of get fixated on the job at hand.

I can get some pics of the O-47 work, too. Might be of interest to someone. The technology is mid 1930's and the structure is very conventional. If you've never done any work on one though, you'd be surprised at how many pieces it takes to make a small bit of structure.