- Thread starter
- #21
Actually, do you think this could be my two Lancaster bombers that he shot down? Could you explain what the symbols all mean? When it refers to height, is that the height they were shot down??
Advice for tracing some information
- Thread starter LIZZIE
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Actually, do you think this could be my two Lancaster bombers that he shot down? Could you explain what the symbols all mean? When it refers to height, is that the height they were shot down??
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
It is a possibillity i think. Or perhaps shot the one and saw it hitting the other and claimed that one too. A minute for 2 kills at night is i think very very short. Even if the bomber stream is over the target. A gun cam was proof but not by far not always. Witness from i.g. a wingman could be enough. ( that is one of the reasons for over claiming) Now for nightfighters, they fought mostly over land in german hands so a claim could be verified by the debry on the ground. But even then it could be un clear hence my guncam remark.
- Thread starter
- #23
Mmm... an interesting thought. I wish there were some means of proving this. It would be logical to say you got "two birds with one shot" as we say here in Britain if he shot one and then it crashed into another one! These heights 5800 and 6300 does that refer to the height of the Lancasters or to the fighter plane, or the distance between the Koch's fighter plane and the Lancasters???
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
Height target i believe.
- Thread starter
- #25
Isn't that a bit low for the Lancasters to be dropping bombs from, especially as there is only a 25-meter deviation of hitting the target from a height of 15,000 feet which would be a much safer option for them, given the threat from flak defenses??
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Heights are in meters. So 6,300m = 21,000 feet.
- Thread starter
- #27
Ah ... that makes sense now! Sorry, meters are not my strong point! I'm an old fashioned girl who works in feet!!!!
Last edited by a moderator:
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
You're welcome, and I still work in feet and yards most of the time too !
Crimea_River
Marshal
Two films in the same minute 500m apart is not hard to explain. Neither need be "kills" as I think the camera would be activated by the gun button. So firing the gun at two targets in that time frame and altitude difference would not be unusual in my opinion.
- Thread starter
- #30
Do you think that a Lancaster bomber, shot down over Stuttgart at 21,000 feet, falling in a steep downward trajectory, can travel 7 miles before hitting the ground?
Crimea_River
Marshal
It depends on when it entered the dive after being hit. It's certainly plausible.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
The notation in the beginning of this thread is not the gun cam. It on what roll the evidence and rest of the paperwork can be found i think. The time is the time for abschuss so real time be it german war time ( differend then allied time) . The 15 of march was a cold night but with decending moon. I stand about what i said. Difficult to find your target at night not impossible but difficult. So another scenario is worth thinking over.
And it is the difference in altitude. Again at night that can be a thing. Certainly the gunners would have seen the Lancaster being hit.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #33
According to the pilot, who survived, it entered the dive almost immediately as it severed the joystick controls and went nose downwards, before hitting another Lancaster.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yes. An altitude of 21,000 is roughly 4 miles, so even in a relatively steep trajectory, allowing for momentum and wind, 7 miles from point of being hit and impact would not be unusual.
At 4 miles high, with a descent angle of roughly 42 to 45 degrees, the impact would be approximately 7 miles, as shown in the rough sketch below.
At 4 miles high, with a descent angle of roughly 42 to 45 degrees, the impact would be approximately 7 miles, as shown in the rough sketch below.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
When attacked the allied ofcourse tried to get out of the way corkscrewing or what ever was possible. The german knowing he hit the target but not sure if it went down would try to follow his prey to finnish the job. (He would not have know he killed it already.) And get his reward for the kill ofcourse. So my scenario is i think a possibilty.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
Stuttgart March 1944, 15th
Other sq. But same night. Good read.
Visiability over target 1 - 2 miles.
Weather fine but becoming fair and cloudy in the afternoon.
Other sq. But same night. Good read.
Visiability over target 1 - 2 miles.
Weather fine but becoming fair and cloudy in the afternoon.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #37
Hello Snautzer01, I'm so sorry but I couldn't see an attachment. Am I missing something here?
- Thread starter
- #38
Ah, ignore me. Just seen it, thank you.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,938
- Mar 26, 2007
- Thread starter
- #40
That's great, thank you. I had looked at a few other squadrons involved but I hadn't seen the entries recorded past the map before. Actually, I am also delighted to see that the route I plotted out myself is the same as the one you've sent and I've done it right!!!! Not bad for a woman whose geography abilities are not very good! Whey-hey! Thank you.
