Advice for tracing some information

[Snautzer01]

On the recieving end Luftangriffe auf Steinenbronn 1944 – Zeitreise

This wednesday the weather over Stuttgart was a closed cloud front. At 23.15 the sirens went off, and started the flak shooting. According to eye whitnesses the raid came in 2 waves. The 2nd wave being less powerfull. One of the bombers exploded over Steinenbronn, debry spread over a large area, some dead crew found. 1 nightfighter crashed in the woods. Pilot had tried to jump, failed and was found dead ar some distance.

 

[Snautzer01]

-KG 44. Sqn. (RAF) / Avro Lancaster Mk. III / # ND576 / Operation Stuttgart / Abschuss durch Flak / Absturz zwischen der "Schill " und der "Strombergstraße" im Stadtgebiet Ludwigsburg (Baden-Württemberg) - Deutschland / Flight Lieutenant Fynn (P) - Fallschirmabsprung - KG / 7 gefallen

463. Sqn. (RAAF) / Avro Lancaster Mk. I / # ME573 / Operation Stuttgart / Beschuss durch Flakgruppe Stuttgart - vermutlich auch Beschuss durch Nachtjäger / Absturz am "Gröninger Weg" in Kornwestheim, nördlich Stuttgart (Baden-Württemberg) - Deutschland / Pilot Officer John Roberts / 7 gefalle

 

[Snautzer01]

A Pride of Eagles: A History of the Rhodesian Air Force

 

[Crimea_River]

Excellent digging.

 

[LIZZIE]

On the recieving end Luftangriffe auf Steinenbronn 1944 – Zeitreise

This wednesday the weather over Stuttgart was a closed cloud front. At 23.15 the sirens went off, and started the flak shooting. According to eye whitnesses the raid came in 2 waves. The 2nd wave being less powerfull. One of the bombers exploded over Steinenbronn, debry spread over a large area, some dead crew found. 1 nightfighter crashed in the woods. Pilot had tried to jump, failed and was found dead ar some distance.

This wasn't any of my Lancasters, but thanks for the information. It all adds to the general picture of events. Thank you *

-KG 44. Sqn. (RAF) / Avro Lancaster Mk. III / # ND576 / Operation Stuttgart / Abschuss durch Flak / Absturz zwischen der "Schill " und der "Strombergstraße" im Stadtgebiet Ludwigsburg (Baden-Württemberg) - Deutschland / Flight Lieutenant Fynn (P) - Fallschirmabsprung - KG / 7 gefallen

463. Sqn. (RAAF) / Avro Lancaster Mk. I / # ME573 / Operation Stuttgart / Beschuss durch Flakgruppe Stuttgart - vermutlich auch Beschuss durch Nachtjäger / Absturz am "Gröninger Weg" in Kornwestheim, nördlich Stuttgart (Baden-Württemberg) - Deutschland / Pilot Officer John Roberts / 7 gefalle

Please could you let me know where you got these two pieces of information, as the information needs updating to reflect Air Ministry findings?

Though the crash sites themselves are correct, the wrong Lancasters were attributed to them. ME573 was the Lancaster bomber at the Ludwigsburg (Baden-Wurttemberg) crash site, and the ND576 was at the Kornwestheim crash site. The incorrect recording which Lancaster fell at which site, was because of the body crew mix-ups. There were three investigations into this collision by the Air Ministry MREU, in London, who investigated the crash in Germany.
MRES REPORT DATED 14TH FEB 1947
MRES REPORT DATED 25TH FEB 1947
MRES REPORT DATED 22ND DEC 1947
The ME573 was 99% destroyed due to the mid-air explosion and only 7 dog tags found. All the body pieces were collected into one coffin and buried at Ludwigsburg, and the dog tags collected. These included two bodies from the ND576 crew, (my uncle being one of them) who were buried with this ME576 crew, and an initial incorrect assumption was made that this was the ND576 Lancaster bomber that had crashed here.

At the other crash site at Kornwesthiem, one body was identified as being from the ME573 crew and a dog tag identified another ME573 crew member, those were BA James Benzie, 20 & WOP. Stanley Palmer, 26 who were both found with the rest of the ND576 crew members Flt. Lt. John Berrington, 20 / Flt.Engr. Denis Orme, 20 / Nav. Mervyn Adder, 21 / BA. Gerald Clark, 22 / AG. Joseph Sagar, 19. THEY were all buried at Kornwestheim.
The grave markers all confirm which bodies were buried in which cemetery, from the different sites.

It was the swap of four men which led to the initial incorrect Lancaster being attributed to the wrong crash site, and the records you have sent me have not been updated to reflect the subsequent findings. I come across this often and I do try to put the record straight, but these are German records that were recorded at the time and presumably, the intervening years now mean it is not worth updated the records.
In the second and last report from the Air Ministry MREU findings, the location of the crash-sites was corrected, which I also have, with the location of the crash site of Lancaster ND576 now being given as 3km southwest of Ludwigsburg near the water tower at Kornwestheim. The surviving pilot of ND576 also gave his report and confirmation as to where he was picked up by the German authorities confirming Kornwestheim as the designated crash site for ND576.

I visited both crash sites during my research in Germany and was lucky to meet eyewitnesses at the crash site of ME573 at Ludwigsburg. The land was still polluted from all the fuel, incendiaries, etc., and the imprint of the obliterated Lancaster was still evident then but that was nearly twenty years ago.
Anyway, sorry for the detailed explanation, and thank you for sending it to me. The difficulty is trying to correct the information at source, but never mind. I have the proof for anyone interested. Thank you. regards Liz

 

[Crimea_River]

You have certainly done your homework Liz.

 

[LIZZIE]

You have certainly done your homework Liz.

Thank you. I have always been interested in research, and I have collected data regarding this crash for nearly 40 years. The data gets updated as more information becomes available in the public domain. I do try to verify my data by other means to make sure it is correct. The last bit of data I am waiting for is the release of the casualty files on each of these men. I have a synopsis of my uncle's casualty file pertaining to him, but I don't have access to the others because of the 100 years ruling put in place to protect the families, which I respect. I have four more years to wait for those unless some poor takes pity on an 'old' lady and lets me have them before then! I'm in the process of creating a memorial book, called, 'In memory of fifteen men." This will be to accompany a large Lancaster Bomber embroidery of ND576 and it's crew, which I did sixteen years ago. At the time, even though I knew my uncle's plane had collided with the ME573 plane, I was only researching my uncle's plane, which is why there is only one embroidery of the one crew. As the years have gone on, I began to realize that I only had half the account, so I started to research the ME573 crew as well. The collision of these two aircraft are intertwined, so much so that you cannot tell the one story without the other - the benefits of wisdom in later years! Even though I only knew my uncle, and in later years, Terry Fynn, the pilot of ND576, I have become close to all of these boys. Their lives are now part of one family. What I would like to do, is to find a photograph for each of the boys. I am now only missing four out of the fifteen. -
2103522 - JAMES WILBY 463 Squadron
2102781 - RONALD PEAD - 463 Sqdn
2079890 - PETER CHARLES RUSSELL BROWN - 463 Sqdn
2079768 - JAMES MACADAM BENZIE - 463 Sqdn
.... and then I will be able to make a plaque of the ME573 Lancaster Bomber boys to hang below the embroidery. Eventually, I'd like it all to go to the International Bomber Command Centre at Lincoln in Britain. So there you have it! Regards, Liz

 

[Snautzer01]

Perhaps one of the local building boys can make a model of the lancaster?

 

[LIZZIE]

Perhaps one of the local building boys can make a model of the lacaster?

Now that's a great thought! Thank you. You have been excellent in offering advice and it is much appreciated.

 

[Snautzer01]

Air Forces Database Search [RAFCommands]

Air Forces Database Search [RAFCommands]

Perhaps you want to add there your research results?

random crew of 44sq

 

[LIZZIE]

Air Forces Database Search [RAFCommands]

Air Forces Database Search [RAFCommands]

Perhaps you want to add there your research results?

random crew of 44sq

View attachment 587516

Thanks, Snautzer01. I will do. When I was in Germany, I went to the Durnbach War Cemetery. It was such a lovely, peaceful place nestled in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps.