Aircraft Modifications

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What aiming devices did the succesful AC-47 have?



Kris

AC-47s were not used in WW2. They were introduced in Vietnam in 1964 with the 4th Air Commando. By the end of 1965 there were 26 in service.

I however do not know how they were aimed the guns at a specific target. I know at first it was used with a crude grease pencile target thing, but later on I am sure electronic devices were used. Not sure though.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

What aiming devices did the succesful AC-47 have?



Kris

They had optical sights but were not as accurate as what we have today. The first AC-47s and AC-119s used "minnie guns" and just peppered the directed targets. When the AC-130s were introduced we started to see side looking radar, IR targeting systes and other systems that not only allowed accurate targeting, but allowed the use of larger guns.

Chris has a point - I don't think the fuselages in the B-17 would of been wide enough.

 

[HealzDevo]

Okay, perhaps. In the end it was just an idea sort of thing.

 

[Civettone]

Well, if the AC-47 used optical sights then the "AB-17" would have been equally accurate.

Besides, if you recall, there was a heavy escort fighter variant of the B-17. Most had lots of heavy MGs but some had 40mm guns.

Kris

 

[HealzDevo]

Just a good question on why it was never tried in WW2 when they had Tarawa and that which could have been good for softening up by air...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They did not have weapons suitable for the task.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Well, if the AC-47 used optical sights then the "AB-17" would have been equally accurate.

Besides, if you recall, there was a heavy escort fighter variant of the B-17. Most had lots of heavy MGs but some had 40mm guns.

Kris

The AC-47 had a battery of mini guns that blanketed an area and was designed for air-to-ground counter-insurgency supression. The B-40 was designed as an escort gunship.

here's the gunsight...

 

[Civettone]

I know that Flyboy. If there was already a B-17 like the later AC-47 we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

My point was that the "AB-17" would have been possible: take the guns from the YB-40 (put pointed downwards) and the gunsights of the later AC-47 and you'll have an "AB-17" armed with a whole array of guns capable of "blanketing an area".

Not saying they should have build it, only that it was possible.
Kris

 

[renrich]

The YB-40 was not a successful concept because of CG problems and because unless they had fired off most of their ammunition they were too heavy to keep up with the bombers on the way home. I don't believe any models of the B-17 ever carried any 40 mm guns.

 

[MacArther]

Where to start.......

1. Produce the P40-Q, but forgo the six .50 cals in the wings and install four 20mm's instead. Give it plumbing for drop tanks, as well as some support for carrying around 1500 lbs of bombs/underslung ordinance max.

2. Give the Hurricane late models (from about IID to IV) a better engine, say one designed to give a better top speed than the ones that were used. Fix the 40mm S guns to planes on tank hunts via blow-away bolts, so the guns can be dropped in flight if need be. Finally, on the mentioned late marks, give the fighter a little more than the two .303 guns that were fitted besides the modular armament. It could be two more guns with less ammo, or it could just be two .50 cals, I just think that the planes should have more firepower for strafing on infantry and self defense if jumped by fighters.

More to come, just can't remember what I was about to write.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I know that Flyboy. If there was already a B-17 like the later AC-47 we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

My point was that the "AB-17" would have been possible: take the guns from the YB-40 (put pointed downwards) and the gunsights of the later AC-47 and you'll have an "AB-17" armed with a whole array of guns capable of "blanketing an area".

Not saying they should have build it, only that it was possible.
Kris

With what guns? .50 cal? If we're talking about using a B-17 in a spooky role years later, sure - I don't think a YB-40 with all it's .50s pointed down would of been as effective. The thing that made the AC-47 was its guns.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Exactly and that is why I said there were no weapons suitable. You needed the mini guns man!

 

[Civettone]

Aaah... I didn't know that the AC-47 used miniguns, I thought it used machineguns. Wiki just told me. My mistake!

As miniguns weren't available in WW2, neither the AC-47 could have existed that soon.

Kris

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Aaah... I didn't know that the AC-47 used miniguns, I thought it used machineguns. Wiki just told me. My mistake!

As miniguns weren't available in WW2, neither the AC-47 could have existed that soon.

Kris

My brother was in Vietnam and witnessed AC-47 and AC-119 Spooky strikes. He said when they fired on a target everything within the blanket of the mini guns and .30 cals had lead through them. It was not uncommon to find 100 dead VCs or NVA regulars who were caught by one of these aircraft.

 

[Matt308]

I'm still struggling with Mac's suggestion of hanging 40mm cannon below a P-40 with explosive bolts so they could be dropped on a whim.

I gotta give him credit...he's thinkin'.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I was fortunate to see the AC-130 unleash its might over Iraq during a mission. We were flying away off from the fight waiting for the call from the infantry to come back in and get them after they accomplished what they had to do and they called in for "Puff". Needless to say it was one of the most exciting things I have seen and also strangly beautiful.

 

[MacArther]

I'm still struggling with Mac's suggestion of hanging 40mm cannon below a P-40 with explosive bolts so they could be dropped on a whim.

I gotta give him credit...he's thinkin'.

Actually, the 40mm's attached by explosive bolts would be for the improved Hurricane IID-IV models.

And thanks, I rarely come up with something plausible or useful in relation to old style armament, planes, etc....

 

[Grampa]

How whould you say if I whould make a plan to turn the de Havilland D.H98 Mosquito in to an divebomber. I whould basicly use the FB.Mk XVIII whit a modification by remove the 57-mm Molins antitankgun and replacing it whit the original 4x20mm cannon. and maby I also put a large bombdors in the fuselage same as the B.Mk XVI use so it could carry up to 1814-kg bombs if it goes well. Last and most importent thing I whould replace the original gunsight whit the m/42B bombsight instead. The m/42B whas probably the most eficient and advanced device for divebombing in WW2, it allovs the plane to divebomb to the target whit a angle low as to 30 degreed and it can also calculating the windspeed to make more accurate. That whould make no need of major reinforcement to the fuselage to handle the high G-force that comes when pulling out from the original divebombning that originality happens in 80-70 degrees or so, it whould also be no need for put in divebrake in the plane ether.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Just my opinion but turning the Mossie into a Dive Bomber would defeat the purpose of the beautiful bird.

 

[Grampa]

Mr Adler. You dident thougt that my idea to this whas to make the beautyful plane more usefull in some other offensive ways. Even if the "mossie" could divebombnin whit those "mods" it still wouldent mean that the plane newer can be in the main roll as a fighterbomber whit no influence on the original performance. A Figherbombing "mossie" that can also divebomb on the target efficient as a original divebomber whas my idea.