"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (5 Viewers)

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Dimlee,

Yes there are QF-16s out there but that doesn't mean they are suitable for extended combat ops or the remote system is up to a ECM heavy environment. They generally are at the end of their lifespan when they get converted into targets.

I fully support Ukraine and its fight for independence and freedom, but when is enough actually enough? When can a country say I've given enough? I don't know the answer, but I do know there will be limits, and it seems sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
Biff
 

War-weariness does seem to be setting in.
 
BiffF15 said:
I fully support Ukraine and its fight for independence and freedom, but when is enough actually enough? When can a country say I've given enough?
Click to expand...
Total US aid to Ukraine in 2023 was IIRC about 5% of total US military spending for that year. With that 5% the US is contributing to the likely elimination of Russia's conventional offensive capability into the 2040s, at the cost of zero US lives.

If my neighbour's house is on fire and I own a fire hose, enough is enough when the fire's entirely extinguished.
 
I agree in principle. I'm also not speaking of just the US, as there are many nations that are more directly threatened than this one.

Also this country is a spaghetti mess politically and financially.

For fear of trespassing into the political arena I will stop here.
 
One factor that may be overlooked in regards to providing equipment to Ukraine, is the equipment is dated, soon to be replacedand or reserve/stored stocks.

While this may sound like nations are "dumping" castoffs to Ukraine, the bulk of the equipment, even though retired, is newer than much of the equipment that Russia is fielding.

I'm not sure what percentage of stocks other nations have in reserve, but the U.S. has quite a bit. In the case of the M1 Abrams, there is a large reserve, especially since the USMC has decided to retire theirs.
 
GrauGeist said:
One factor that may be overlooked in regards to providing equipment to Ukraine, is the equipment is dated, soon to be replacedand or reserve/stored stocks.
Click to expand...
I do wonder how much of the weapons, systems, AFVs, etc. provided to Ukraine are non-short dated, BNIB (Brand New In Box). I expect very little. The F-16s from Denmark and the Netherlands are likely at least twenty years old, for example.

One thing I hope the US is roaring up new and vast production for Ukraine for is M58 MICLIC. They can be towed behind anything from a wheeled IFV to an Abrams.
 
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Writing down Russian military capability is great, but the motivation behind my support is not so much making Russia weak but rather helping Ukrainians live free. We walk away now, there will be another flare-up -- and speaking as a former firefighter, I can say that a reflare is almost always worse than the original fire.
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
Writing down Russian military capability is great, but the motivation behind my support is not so much making Russia weak but rather helping Ukrainians live free.
Click to expand...

Thumpalumpacus said:
We walk away now, there will be another flare-up -- and speaking as a former firefighter, I can say that a reflare is almost always worse than the original fire.
Click to expand...

Agree to both statements 1000%

We need to remember our history from 1938 and how that worked out in 1939 through 45
 
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Admiral Beez said:
... The F-16s from Denmark and the Netherlands are likely at least twenty years old, for example....
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I wonder how old the Ukrainian AND Russian airframes are?
It has been written long ago never underestimate your enemy, although the Russians are making that tough. I still believe ex-Nato F-16s have been far better maintained.
 
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BiffF15 said:
I fully support Ukraine and its fight for independence and freedom, but when is enough actually enough? When can a country say I've given enough? I don't know the answer, but I do know there will be limits, and it seems sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Given the situation and the outcomes that will arise if Russia/Putin prevails, I would argue only when Ukraine wins and Russian forces are ejected. To take the below analogy one step further:
Admiral Beez said:
If my neighbour's house is on fire and I own a fire hose, enough is enough when the fire's entirely extinguished.
Click to expand...
If we stop and go back inside when there are still flames next door, what will we do when our roof catches fire? Who do we expect to call for support to put out the fire then when it is threatening our own home and family?
 
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