"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)

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Those pushing or even considering that Ukraine should do some sort of deal that cedes occupied land need to appreciate that this isn't just about principal or even national pride. There are hard economic and national survival reasons why Russia invaded where they did and why Ukraine needs the occupied lands back. Look at the following resource maps (these are just a few):

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Ukraine_wheat.jpg


Ukraine_Millet.jpg

Ukraine_Barley.jpg


I could go on….

Now overlay where the front lines/occupied lands sit as of today:

DraftUkraineCoT%20November%207%2C%202024.png


For Ukraine to willingly concede those territories (and for Russia to be rewarded with them for their illegal aggression) is tantamount to economic suicide. I am sure no forced peace will include compensating Ukraine for its future losses. Let alone the entire injustice of rewarding the criminals who have conducted, and continue to conduct, crimes against humanity be those murders, rapes, castrations, forced separation of children from their families, and so on. All because someone wants to have a "Peace in out time" moment for the cameras and create/perpetuate a false narrative for their own supporters. Fuck off!!!
 
One small problem: Kremlin doesn't stop.

In March 2014, Ukraine could not regain Crimea.
In September 2014 after the defeat in Ilovaisk, Ukraine could not regain the occupied territory in the east.
Ukraine tried to go on and to reach its goals of joining this and that... Ukraine was advised to look at historical examples (yes, Germany was mentioned many times).
Zelensky while being a naive and ignorant candidate in the president race of 2019, said about the war in the East: "We just need to stop shooting".
He fired people with the hawkish reputation, he created commissions and bodies for the negotiations and for cultural and humanitarian cooperation with occupied territories. He withdrawn troops in some places on the frontline. He wanted to meet Putin and resolve "misunderstandings"...
You can't negotiate with a shark
 
I think some of members here underestimate national pride and justice. How would you guys feel if Mexico would annex Texas and Arizona? Would you think, oh well, it's only about 18% of the country and Mexico devastated it anyway, so they can have it?

Apart from that, do we want a dictator like Putin gain anything from being aggressive?
And yet that is just what some are pushing for all because they are misguided (if I am generous), bored with the war or just wanting their "Peace in our time" moment. Have a look at my above post with the maps to see that this is far more than national pride too.
 
Currently, Russia holds what, only about 18% of Ukraine territory?
But if you look at my post with the maps, it isn't that simple. The occupied territories are some of Ukraine's richest and most productive.
If there are concessions, I'm sure the occupied Kursk region will be a solid bargaining chip.
Not much of one I'm afraid

The fly in the ointment, though, is the issue of war crimes and abducted Ukrainian children and citizens.
Yep
 
One small problem: Kremlin doesn't stop.

In March 2014, Ukraine could not regain Crimea.
In September 2014 after the defeat in Ilovaisk, Ukraine could not regain the occupied territory in the east.
Ukraine tried to go on and to reach its goals of joining this and that... Ukraine was advised to look at historical examples (yes, Germany was mentioned many times).
Zelensky while being a naive and ignorant candidate in the president race of 2019, said about the war in the East: "We just need to stop shooting".
He fired people with the hawkish reputation, he created commissions and bodies for the negotiations and for cultural and humanitarian cooperation with occupied territories. He withdrawn troops in some places on the frontline. He wanted to meet Putin and resolve "misunderstandings"...
Great post. Anybody thinking that we will stop Putin by making concessions is wrong. He is like Hitler. He will only see that his aggressiveness pays off and will become a bigger threat.
 
By the way, if anyone ever wants to have a go at me personally re my support for Ukraine and accuse me to just being talk, I have some news for you. My team and I have helped directly with getting weapons sent to Ukraine. My wife and I have personally made financial donations to Ukraine. If I was a younger, healthier man I would probably do even more.
 
I think some of members here underestimate national pride and justice. How would you guys feel if Mexico would annex Texas and Arizona?
About the same as the Mexicans must have felt when the USA annexed California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma. They had to accept it and find a way to carry on. Ukraine will have to do the same.

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Well said.

I suggest everyone take a step back and chill out.
The guy shouting seems the only one who's not pretty chill here. Everyone seems to be walking the line and only mentioning anything tangentially political as it may apply to Ukraine. If Putin or Xi Jinping were deposed tomorrow in a coup, that would be both political and relevant to the Ukraine discussion. My vote is send him a Moderator Application Form and we all carry on as is, respecting each other and contributing to the discussion. Honestly, I don't see anything above that closely violates the rules of conduct. We're a good, polite bunch here, ahem....
Fuck off!!!
Okay... but what choice does Ukraine have? They can't fight Russia forever, and NATO, Australia and other supporters will eventually slow their lethal and financial aid.
 
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The guy shouting seems the only one who's not pretty chill here. Everyone seems to be walking the line and only mentioning anything tangentially political as it may apply to Ukraine. If Putin or Xi Jinping were deposed tomorrow in a coup, that would be both political and relevant to the Ukraine discussion. My vote is send him a Moderator Application Form and we all carry on as is, respecting each other and contributing to the discussion. Honestly, I don't see anything above that closely violates the rules of conduct. We're a good, polite bunch here, ahem....

Okay... but what choice does Ukraine have? They can't fight Russia forever, and NATO, Australia and other supporters will eventually slow their lethal and financial aid.

Thank you for your input. Noted. We'll send you an application form too when a position comes open. Until then… ;)
 

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