"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)

[SaparotRob]

Being a Cold War Kid, I enjoyed that a bit more than I should.

 

[fubar57]

Back to the HMS Sheffield. Started reading the WIKI version and stopped after a few errors noted compared to this... In perspective: the loss of HMS Sheffield | Navy Lookout

Carry on...........

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well, Google has chosen sides.

Google Denies Removing Blurring For Russia’s Military Sites - The Moscow Times

This story was corrected at 8:39 a.m. on Tuesday to include a denial by Google Maps, and an update on images circulating online. Google Maps denied reports Monday that it had made Russia’s strategic facilities visible to users, allegedly revealing details of the country’s military...

www.themoscowtimes.com

 

[WARSPITER]

Interesting "horns of a dilemma" problem there. Does the Kremlin blame an attack by Ukraine, which is a major shift in narrative and inspires criticism that the Black Sea Fleet' flagship couldn't defend itself....or do they stick with the accidental fire story which suggests incompetence within the Russian Navy.

Considering they have a modern tradition of naval incidents another self inflicted incident shouldn't raise too many eyebrows
(Kursk and Kuznetsov for instance).

 

[buffnut453]

Considering they have a modern tradition of naval incidents another self inflicted incident shouldn't raise too many eyebrows
(Kursk and Kuznetsov for instance).

Not sure I agree. Kursk and Kuznetsov were peacetime accidents. Theoretically, Moskva was on a wartime footing. One would expect their damage control drills to be much more effectively practiced.

For all Moscow's efforts to hide the realities of the war in Ukraine, it will all seep out eventually. There will simply be too many parents, siblings or spouses who lost family members and their neighbours will know them. It's like King Cnut trying to hold back the tide...it will come in. I just hope it happens soon and that there's a suitable reckoning for Putin and his cronies.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Not sure I agree. Kursk and Kuznetsov were peacetime accidents. Theoretically, Moskva was on a wartime footing. One would expect their damage control drills to be much more effectively practiced.

As the US and Japanese navies both learnt, learning DC in wartime conditions is a bitch. That's certainly something you hammer out in peacetime -- one thing our navy has done very right. I'm sure the Russians will learn from this but I wonder how much will be put into place after the corruption has taken its slice.

 

[GrauGeist]

If the Black Sea wasn't closed off, the Russians would have probably slipped one of their Slava class cruisers in from the Med, renamed it to the Moskva nd then issued a full photo/video propaganda campaign, stating it was never scratched.

 

[Denniss]

 

[ThomasP]

Although signals intel is still being analyzed, it appears that there is no indication that Moskva was aware she was under attack before the first missile hit. ELINT detected no sudden change in radar signatures (ie fire control radars or ECM systems coming online) nor were there any unusual communications between the Moskva and the other assets in the area (prior to the first impact) that would indicate a sudden awareness of incoming missiles. Apparently the missiles hit about 10 sec apart.

NOTE Source for the above is usually accurate.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Although signals intel is still being analyzed, it appears that there is no indication that Moskva was aware she was under attack before the first missile hit. Elint detected no sudden change in radar signatures (ie fire control radars or ECM systems coming online) nor were there any unusual communications between the Moskva and the other assets in the area (prior to the first impact) that would indicate a sudden awareness of incoming missiles. Apparently the missiles hit about 10 sec apart.

NOTE Source for the above is usually accurate.

If these two missiles were launched from this island, and the Moskva was 20-40mls away? seems to me that the Russian intel. simply wasn't aware about these missiles being
stationed there. otherwise it would have been total stupidity and neglect to sail that close by.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[GrauGeist]

Although signals intel is still being analyzed, it appears that there is no indication that Moskva was aware she was under attack before the first missile hit. Elint detected no sudden change in radar signatures (ie fire control radars or ECM systems coming online) nor were there any unusual communications between the Moskva and the other assets in the area (prior to the first impact) that would indicate a sudden awareness of incoming missiles. Apparently the missiles hit about 10 sec apart.

NOTE Source for the above is usually accurate.

Over confidence mixed with lack of training, perhaps?

It seems to me, that with the loss of the Vasily Bykov, they would have become more wary of Ukrainian capabilities and placed their naval assets on a higher state of alert (meaning: hey, we're actually at war and need to act accordingly).

 

[ThomasP]

The Ukrainian Neptune systems are all (I think) mobile truck or trailer mounted systems.

 

[space dodo]

Dream on! Short of another 1917 they haven't got it in them. The DQ (Desperation Quotient) is nowhere near that level yet.

well there was that military coup against gorbachev during the collapse

 

[Jagdflieger]

well there was that military coup against gorbachev during the collapse

yes, but it came down to replacing a "weak" man with a supposedly stronger man. or if you prefer a liberal person with a hardliner.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[space dodo]

yes, but it came down to replacing a "weak" man with a supposedly stronger man. or if you prefer a liberal person with a hardliner.

Regards
Jagdflieger

its really surprising that gorbachev wasnt overthrown. Probably the best leader of the USSR.

 

[Admiral Beez]

its really surprising that gorbachev wasnt overthrown. Probably the best leader of the USSR.

He was, but came back.

Mikhail Gorbachev - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WARSPITER]

It is interesting that the Sea of Azov is up to 135km wide when the Neptune missiles can reach 300km. Not a wonder
the Russians want to get hold of the Southern Ukrainian coast.

 

[Macandy]

Russia - Potemkin Armed Farces

 

[Macandy]

Not sure I agree. Kursk and Kuznetsov were peacetime accidents. Theoretically, Moskva was on a wartime footing. One would expect their damage control drills to be much more effectively practiced.

For all Moscow's efforts to hide the realities of the war in Ukraine, it will all seep out eventually. There will simply be too many parents, siblings or spouses who lost family members and their neighbours will know them. It's like King Cnut trying to hold back the tide...it will come in. I just hope it happens soon and that there's a suitable reckoning for Putin and his cronies.

What are these 'Damage control drills' of which you speak?

The current Russian Fleet is little advanced in basic damage control, firefighting and lifeboat drills over the Russian Fleet that was annihilated at Tsuhima

 

[vikingBerserker]

It all comes down to training. I was reading the average Russian pilot gets almost half the annual flight time as their Western counterparts.