"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)

[Dimlee]

Good article. There are some inaccuracies and typical cliches but, overall, a solid overview of the Ukrainian military path since 2014. From the catastrophe and humiliation of 2014 to the battlefields of 2022.

Ukraine’s Military Pulled Itself Out of the Ruins of 2014

U.S. training helps but isn’t the main reason for the transformation.

foreignpolicy.com

Some quotes:
"...the Ukrainians enjoyed the opportunity to train hard but were teaching U.S. paratroopers, sergeants, and officers more about war than they were learning."
"My assessment—that it was the United States that was unprepared for war with Russia, not Ukraine—was shared internally at this time by junior and mid-level leaders within the U.S. military itself..."
"War helped separate the wheat from the chaff—and made military corruption no longer something that one could turn a blind eye to but a threat to national survival and the survival of one's comrades."
"The general ... attributed some battlefield success to the advantage Ukraine enjoyed from deliberately transitioning authority and trust from officers to NCOs and decentralizing battlefield decision-making."
"Ukraine's military has been a hospitable place for training because its leaders hit on a similar structure and sense of purpose to U.S. and NATO armies organically in 2014-15. If they hadn't, Ukraine would have ceased to exist."

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Good article. There are some inaccuracies and typical cliches but, overall, a solid overview of the Ukrainian military path since 2014. From the catastrophe and humiliation of 2014 to the battlefields of 2022.

Ukraine’s Military Pulled Itself Out of the Ruins of 2014

U.S. training helps but isn’t the main reason for the transformation.

foreignpolicy.com

Some quotes:
"...the Ukrainians enjoyed the opportunity to train hard but were teaching U.S. paratroopers, sergeants, and officers more about war than they were learning."
"My assessment—that it was the United States that was unprepared for war with Russia, not Ukraine—was shared internally at this time by junior and mid-level leaders within the U.S. military itself..."
"War helped separate the wheat from the chaff—and made military corruption no longer something that one could turn a blind eye to but a threat to national survival and the survival of one's comrades."
"The general ... attributed some battlefield success to the advantage Ukraine enjoyed from deliberately transitioning authority and trust from officers to NCOs and decentralizing battlefield decision-making."
"Ukraine's military has been a hospitable place for training because its leaders hit on a similar structure and sense of purpose to U.S. and NATO armies organically in 2014-15. If they hadn't, Ukraine would have ceased to exist."

Devolving decision-making in combat as low as is useful is generally a good approach. Centralized decision-making often has a hard time keeping up with unfolding events, whereas the fighters on the spot are better equipped to adapt and overcome.

Of course, this requires a solid NCO corps. Ukraine seems to understand this.

 

[Dimlee]

Sure. I think this sort of thing happens far too often in wars, and my own country has obviously committed such mistreatments as well, so I'm not a high-horse about anything, just reporting what I'm reading. As has been noted many times in this thread, we really don't (and probably won't until it's all over) know what has really happened.

If this report is true, as I wrote above, all guilty parties should be prosecuted where possible.

Based on the history of the USSR, Ukraine and the Russian Federation (since 1991), I can give my prediction about the post-war investigations.
Ukraine:
Most of the accidents will be investigated, under the pressure of society and of the international organisations whose work will become again mostly unrestricted. In the most difficult cases, it will take years. In the recent past, military prosecutors worked from 1 to 3 years on some military crimes (army and volunteers) in the East. Only the turning to an authoritarian regime can stop the process, but such regimes have little chance of success in Ukraine after 2014.
Russian Federation:
In the best scenario, a couple of showcase trials. Blanket denials and massive propaganda attacks using all typical tools: whataboutism, fallacies, fakes, etc. Many of the war criminals will be awarded publicly. Some of them will become prominent figures in politics and regular guests on TV shows.
Some day, when the regime changes and the freedom of speech returns (a la "Glasnost'), there will be disclosure, public discussions, excuses... until the country goes back to the authoritarian rule.
Katyn massacre is a textbook case. From the Soviet propaganda myth to the acceptance of truth and cooperation and back to the myth again.

 

[J_P_C]

probably one of the finest artillery units in the world in action

 

[GTX]

probably one of the finest artillery units in the world in action

Based upon what measure??

 

[Dimlee]

Remember the narrative "why Kremlin didn't do this and that... did not implement cyber warfare, etc.".
Of course, they did.

Russia downed satellite internet in Ukraine -Western officials

Russia was behind a massive cyberattack against a satellite internet network that took tens of thousands of modems offline at the onset of Russia-Ukraine war, the United States, Britain, Canada, Estonia and the European Union said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

Attribution of Russia’s Malicious Cyber Activity Against Ukraine - United States Department of State

The United States is joining with allies and partners to condemn Russia’s destructive cyber activities against Ukraine. In the months leading up to and after Russia’s illegal further invasion began, Ukraine experienced a series of disruptive cyber operations, including website defacements...

www.state.gov

 

[SaparotRob]

Based upon what measure??

The "Blowing up bad guys right now" scale?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Based on the history of the USSR, Ukraine and the Russian Federation (since 1991), I can give my prediction about the post-war investigations.
Ukraine:
Most of the accidents will be investigated, under the pressure of society and of the international organisations whose work will become again mostly unrestricted. In the most difficult cases, it will take years. In the recent past, military prosecutors worked from 1 to 3 years on some military crimes (army and volunteers) in the East. Only the turning to an authoritarian regime can stop the process, but such regimes have little chance of success in Ukraine after 2014.
Russian Federation:
In the best scenario, a couple of showcase trials. Blanket denials and massive propaganda attacks using all typical tools: whataboutism, fallacies, fakes, etc. Many of the war criminals will be awarded publicly. Some of them will become prominent figures in politics and regular guests on TV shows.
Some day, when the regime changes and the freedom of speech returns (a la "Glasnost'), there will be disclosure, public discussions, excuses... until the country goes back to the authoritarian rule.
Katyn massacre is a textbook case. From the Soviet propaganda myth to the acceptance of truth and cooperation and back to the myth again.

I think I agree. I expect, especially with Ukraine wanting to join EU and perhaps NATO, that Ukraine will be more transparent regarding these incidents. Having served in the American military, I think that sometimes we covered crap up that should have been exposed. I hope Ukraine doesn't do that, but I fully expect Russia to play the "NO U!" card once again.

 

[Macandy]

There super dupers strike aircraft is the SU-34

Two shot wrecks examined had domestic satnavs fixed to the cockpit surround.
The crappy Russian nav system doesn't work or is so unreliable it cant find Ukraine

Russia Stronk!

 

[SaparotRob]

Did it at least have an 8 track cassette player?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Did it at least have an 8 track cassette player?

Apparently issued with James Taylor and Carly Simon cartridges.

Needs more Black Sabbath! Attitude is everything.

 

[hawkeye2an]

And regarding to planes ...

Russia’s UAC to begin restoration work on Il-96, Tu-204 and An-124 aircraft - AeroTime

Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) received subsidies to remove old aircraft from storage and restore them to a flyable condition. The aircraft in question are two Ilyushin Il-96 wide-body airliners, eight Tupolev Tu-204/214 narrow-body midsized jets, and one Antonov An-124 heavy...

www.aerotime.aero

Any P-39s left? I hear they're good for ground attack

 

[MiTasol]

Based on the history of the USSR, Ukraine and the Russian Federation (since 1991), I can give my prediction about the post-war investigations.
Ukraine:
Most of the accidents will be investigated, under the pressure of society and of the international organisations whose work will become again mostly unrestricted. In the most difficult cases, it will take years. In the recent past, military prosecutors worked from 1 to 3 years on some military crimes (army and volunteers) in the East. Only the turning to an authoritarian regime can stop the process, but such regimes have little chance of success in Ukraine after 2014.
Russian Federation:
In the best scenario, a couple of showcase trials. Blanket denials and massive propaganda attacks using all typical tools: whataboutism, fallacies, fakes, etc. Many of the war criminals will be awarded publicly. Some of them will become prominent figures in politics and regular guests on TV shows.
Some day, when the regime changes and the freedom of speech returns (a la "Glasnost'), there will be disclosure, public discussions, excuses... until the country goes back to the authoritarian rule.
Katyn massacre is a textbook case. From the Soviet propaganda myth to the acceptance of truth and cooperation and back to the myth again.

Like My Lai

Like it or lump it - this is normal in war (sorry police actions etc)

 

[J_P_C]

Based upon what measure??

effectiveness

 

[GrauGeist]

Based upon what measure??

Based on the ability to hit moving tanks versus hitting random apartment buildings...

 

[buffnut453]

Apparently issued with James Taylor and Carly Simon cartridges.

Needs more Black Sabbath! Attitude is everything.

From what I've seen of the Russian performance to-date, I think they're actually playing "George Jones' Greatest Hits"...or perhaps just Patsy Cline's "I Fall to Pieces" on repeat.

 

[RogerdeLluria]

 

[J_P_C]

Based on the ability to hit moving tanks versus hitting random apartment buildings...

i think scoring direct hit of the BMP running at full speed shown on movie it is something requiring lot more than just lucky day, especially that it wasn't just sole example but it was at least 4 vehicles hit with similar precision

 

[buffnut453]

probably one of the finest artillery units in the world in action

And yet more crappy tactics by the Russians.

You're under artillery fire as you proceed down the road in a tracked IFV. Do you:
(a) Stop on the road in clusters to make yourself an even better target?
(b) Use your TRACKED IFVs to disperse off the road, thus reducing the chances that major elements of your unit won't be hit?

 

[Greg Boeser]

Any P-39s left? I hear they're good for ground attack

You had to go there.
And here I was congratulating myself on my restraint.