"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (3 Viewers)

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ThomasP said:
:-k hmmm . . I just though of something. Maybe we should include "cigarette boats", aka "cigar boats", in the next aid package. Better yet - stealth cigarette/cigar boats. No RF coastal/riverside installation/base or ship would be safe from fires/explosions.
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Hemingway and Bogart are smiling from above on you.
 
buffnut453 said:
Well, yes, that's the case in a normal country. Russia, however, is anything but normal.

This reporting gives an indication of how bad things are in regular Russian prisons. I can't imagine what might be meted out against POWs or, worse, those identified as mercenaries:

www.bbc.com

Ex-inmates reveal details of Russia prison rape scandal

Former prisoners expose how and why rape is being used as a weapon inside Russian jails.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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And to put it bluntly I don't think the Russians would give two shits rubbed together about international law regarding PoWs even if this were a legally-declared war.
 
Dimlee said:
They didn't.
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What can be provided now to the Ukrainian navy without violating Montrose?

I'd love to see Ukraine with a half dozen fast missile craft like Finland's Skjold-class corvette.

dp8rxkiv8ndz.jpg
 
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SaparotRob said:
Ukraine was occupied by the CCCP in 1936 when the convention was signed. Does Ukraine get any kind of pass for warships? The bulk of Ukraine's navy was stolen by Russia in 2014.
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The Turks have barred ALL warships from ALL nations from entering the Black Sea.

They scuttled their best ship, the frigate Hetman Sahaidachny. Too bad.

Outside of naval matters, some updates.

 
SaparotRob said:
Ukraine was occupied by the CCCP in 1936 when the convention was signed. Does Ukraine get any kind of pass for warships? The bulk of Ukraine's navy was stolen by Russia in 2014.
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So far as I've read there is no language in the convention restricting it to nations that existed at the time, so no, I don't think Ukr's independence changed anything, and outside help will have to come overland or by air, meaning any naval assets larger than small PCs that can be hauled by rail is not going in for the time being.
 
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The U.S. is providing "riverine/coastal" patrol boats to Ukraine - these are about 38 feet long and could easily be shipped by rail.
The several USN Mark VI patrol boats being granted to Ukraine may be a bit more difficult to get into the Black Sea, as they are 84 feet long.
Not impossible, but certainly a logistical challenge.
 
GrauGeist said:
The U.S. is providing "riverine/coastal" patrol boats to Ukraine - these are about 38 feet long and could easily be shipped by rail.
The several USN Mark VI patrol boats being granted to Ukraine may be a bit more difficult to get into the Black Sea, as they are 84 feet long.
Not impossible, but certainly a logistical challenge.
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Interesting challenge. There are vids of very long wind turbine blades being moved in difficult terrain and I am sure the Ukrainians would soon adapt that tech to do the job.
 
ThomasP said:
If they can get them to the Danube somewhere up-river (maybe via the Netherlands -> Rhine -> River Main -> Main-Danube Canal?) the Mark VI PBs could be delivered to the Black Sea through Romania.
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That's a good idea. The entire route is within NATO territory. We'd want to send fast attack missile boats, rather than patrol boats.

Here's the map of inland waterways.


Too bad the below expansion isn't finished.

 
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ThomasP said:
If they can get them to the Danube somewhere up-river (maybe via the Netherlands -> Rhine -> River Main -> Main-Danube Canal?) the Mark VI PBs could be delivered to the Black Sea through Romania.

View attachment 682058
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That would be an easy way to get the Mark VI patrol boats to Ukraine - the only issue would be portage between the Rhine and Danube.

Just to expand on the USN's Mark VI patrol boat: it's a bit larger than the USN's PT boats of WWII, at 84 feet long, beam of 20 feet and a draft of 4 feet. They weigh 72 tons, powered by two diesel engines (2,600 up, each) and has a top speed of 45 knots.

Typical armament is two Mk 38 25mm gatling guns, six .50 MGs and a Mk 50 remote turret.
It also has mounts for M240 MGs, M134 gatling guns or Mk 19 grenade launchers.
There are plans to upgrade it's system with BGM-176B guided missile launchers.
 
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