"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)

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For all who think that Putin is a madman, I say think again. He is doing exactly what he has intended to do since he gained power. That this invasion war military exercise / peacekeeping mission is not going as planned is because of two reasons. First, his army is not nearly as well trained as we have been led to believe all these years, and second, Zelensky didn't hop on the first plane to the West the minute missiles started dropping. He still wields the oil/gas weapon over Europe and the US, which is a major reason, besides the nuclear threat, that he expects to prevail.
 
Putin will certainly prevail. He can throw enough tanks and men and they actually seem to be doing stuff now.

Question is now what? Any occupation force will cost money and he is losing money as the Russian economy tanks.

What are they thinking or did they ever think? Any victory will be a very bitter one and certainly not worth it.

Maybe Ukraine will be destroyed but it still will have a population who will not capitulate and NATO will get bigger and bigger. Even the Germans are going to rearm. It's all gone wrong and the oligarchy will have there luxury taken away from them. A sensible man will run around screaming in horror for the fate that awaits Russia. It will be awful.
 
The Basket said:
Putin will certainly prevail. He can throw enough tanks and men and they actually seem to be doing stuff now.

Question is now what?
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The plan is to achieve a fait accompli. The Russians take all of Ukraine, set up a puppet governor and then stand down and then offer to negotiate with the West. The globe is run by money not morals, so deals will be made, and within six months our interests will be elsewhere.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Isn't that ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians? Isn't this obvious, or are you trying to make a point?
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I think that's Dimlee's point...Russians and Ukrainians are all ethnically Eastern Slavs.

The civil war in eastern Ukraine wasn't an ethnic war. It was a nationalistic and ideological war. Putin issuing Russian passports to residents of Donbas, as he did last year, clearly indicates it was nationalistic and ideological. You'll also note that Putin didn't shy away from identifying religious and ethnic differences in previous conflicts (Chechnya, anyone?).
 
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Destroy Ukraine and then forget?

No. No forget. Poland I doubt will forget or the Baltic States or Finland.

The sanctions will roll on and within 6 months Russia will be back in the Medieval age. They will be bartering a chicken for a gallon of petrol.

Money means nothing in the face of war. The oligarchy will have their yachts towed away and even that Chelsea guy is feeling a squeeze.

No. It will not be forgotten.
 

But Russia can't stand down, even after a puppet governor is installed. Putin wants Ukraine to be disarmed...which means the puppet governor can only be maintained in power by having Russian forces in Ukraine.

This is the supreme irony of Putin's actions. He didn't want Ukraine joining NATO because it would have placed another NATO nation on Russia's borders. However, by eradicating Ukraine as we know it, he's essentially doing EXACTLY that...pushing the boundary of Russia out to touch the NATO-nation borders with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and greatly increasing the extent of the border with Romania.

I do wonder what Moldova will do next. That country has seen a very recent (2020) sweep away from a pro-Russian stance to pro-European. I wonder if Putin might next seek to annex Moldova...but, again, all he's doing is extending "new-USSR's" borders with NATO.
 
Admiral Beez said:
It's that ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians? Isn't this obvious, or are you trying to make a point?
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I'm trying to get a clear answer from another forum member.
But since you asked... Some facts from 2014.
The 1st person killed by pro-Russian separatists or by the Russian secret service in Crimea was ethnic Qirimlar (Crimean Tatar).
The 2nd person killed by the Russian aggressors in Crimea was an ethnic Russian who was a Ukrainian citizen who served in Ukrainian Forces.
The first casualties on the Ukrainian side near Sloviansk in April 2014 were ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians, SBU officers. They were ambushed by the so-called "Girkin" group that arrived from the Russian territory. That group was mostly Russian, but there were several ethnic Ukrainians as well.
The first active volunteer "battalion" on the Ukrainian side consisted of both ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians, mostly inhabitants of the Donetsk region. Their first commander was ethnic Russian.
The first leader of the so-called DNR was a Russian citizen and then a local resident with a Ukrainian surname took over.
The first leader of the so-called LNR was (probably) ethnic Russian and the second one was ethnic Ukrainian.
I can go on and on.
 

Soundgarden said:
Whatsoever I've feared has come to life
And whatsoever I've fought off became my life
Just when everyday seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded, now I'm doing time
Now I'm doing time
'Cause I fell on black days
I fell on black days
Click to expand...
 
A report I read earlier:



Vindman said he believes that the Russian leader made a series of miscalculations when he decided to invade the former Soviet nation one week ago.

"I don't think he cared that much, but that was another major miscalculation. You make decisions based on assumptions. A fundamental assumption was that the Ukrainians would roll over. A fundamental assumption was that the West would be weak in its response," Vindman told podcast host Jane Coaston.

"A fundamental assumption would be that the Russian population would take it because security services and repression of dissent," he continued. "Those are three massive, massive miscalculations."

[...]

Vindman said that Putin had a "deep misunderstanding" of the West's willingness to defend its interests and a misunderstanding of the ability of Ukraine to defend itself.

"And all of these things coming together into a huge, huge trap for Vladimir Putin. He's consolidated the entire free world against him in condemnation and inaction," he said.


Vindman: This is the ‘beginning of the end’ for Putin

Retired Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman said that he believes the Russian invasion into Ukraine marked the “beginning of the end” for Russian President Vladimir Putin as casualties from…
thehill.com

The Law of Unintended Consequences is called a "law" for a reason.
 
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