"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

BOTH sides backed by foreign powers. Nobody can claim a higher moral ground in this tragedy.

What forgeign troops in unmarked uniforms were on Ukrainian soil? Be specific and support your claims with links to reputable sources, please.

This old article from 2014 (of the NYT none the less!) is just to give you an idea of what was happening.

Evacuating Children Along a Dangerous Ukraine Route (Published 2014)

Volunteer-run minivans are evacuating children from the besieged eastern city of Slovyansk, taking them beyond the reach of artillery fire and twitchy gunmen.

www.nytimes.com

Just like what happened in the former Yugoslavia, outside actors played the old 'divide et impera' tune and then they pick a side, blaming the other one for all the problems.
[/QUOTE]

Your article is paywalled, so I can't read it. Maybe you could offer a summary and an excerpt or two?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Or to try and paint everyone as bad guys.

Exactly. The name for this informal logical fallacy is tu quoque.

Nothing that happened in 2014 justifies Russia's unprovoked 2022 invasion.

 

[Marcel]

The answer to the Ukrainian question is not the former Yugoslavia.

Answer the issues.

The answer to what is the capital of Peru is not the Former Yugoslavia.

This is deflection. Not an answer.

Seen it and seen it. A deflection to not being able to answer the question. Or to try and paint everyone as bad guys.

One can use a comparison or an example to show what they mean. I don't see any problem with that.

Btw the capital of Peru is indeed Lima and not the Former Yugoslavia.

 

[Admiral Beez]

When do we think Kyiv will fall to the Russians? My guess is on Monday.

 

[buffnut453]

Here's another example of Russians targeting "tactical military and bio weapon facilities" (Report from the BBC):

Ana Morari, from Leicestershire, has family in Izyum, north-eastern Ukraine, who have been sending her updates.

Her cousin has a three-year-old baby and has moved to safety in Petrovs'kyi in the east. Meanwhile, his mum, dad and brother are still in Izyum.

"My cousin has moved to safety, but the rest of his family didn't want to leave Isyum.

"My aunty is a pharmacist. She's been working full time, but unable to go to shops.

"They are absolutely trapped. They've been bombed for three days non-stop. They're in a shelter.

"Russian news say Izyum is a military strategic point. Maybe it was 100 years ago. It had one weapons factory which was closed 30 years ago. However, the Russians are saying this is what needs levelling down.

"Now they're firing on blocks of flats, on homes, on schools. One warehouse has been shelled. They have nothing there.

"We're looking at how we can help get supplies to them. They asked for diapers etc. In the same cellar, there are kids. My uncle is very ill, not very mobile.

"Many don't want to leave because there are gangsters ready to raid their flats and homes. Now they're stuck. They can't even go out"

 

[The Basket]

One can use a comparison or an example to show what they mean. I don't see any problem with that.

Btw the capital of Peru is indeed Lima and not the Former Yugoslavia.

So Putin is not responsible for his actions? Because of what happened in the former Yugoslavia?

I dont understand the logic.

 

[buffnut453]

Putin's taking yet more control of the information environment (from the BBC):

The lower chamber of the Russian parliament has approved a law that would impose jail sentences of up to 15 years for people spreading "fake" information.

A number of independent outlets in Russia have been shut down, or chosen to stop operating. International outlets the BBC and Deutsche Welle have been restricted.

Now the BBC director-general says the corporation is temporarily suspending the work of all BBC journalists in Russia, in response to the law.

"This legislation appears to criminalise the process of independent journalism," says director general Tim Davie.

"It leaves us no other option than to temporarily suspend the work of all BBC News journalists and their support staff within the Russian Federation while we assess the full implications of this unwelcome development.

"Our BBC News service in Russian will continue to operate from outside Russia.

"The safety of our staff is paramount and we are not prepared to expose them to the risk of criminal prosecution simply for doing their jobs. I'd like to pay tribute to all of them, for their bravery, determination and professionalism.

"We remain committed to making accurate, independent information available to audiences around the world, including the millions of Russians who use our news services.

"Our journalists in Ukraine and around the world will continue to report on the invasion of Ukraine."

 

[Greg Boeser]

I think he's trying to say that Putin is justified in his actions, because Yugoslavia.

 

[The Basket]

I think he's trying to say that Putin is justified in his actions, because Yugoslavia.

Cool. I can bomb France because of my Citroen.

They had it coming.

 

[GrauGeist]

Cool. I can bomb France because of my Citroen.

They had it coming.

I can see that.

Or a Renault...

 

[Greg Boeser]

I won't judge. But Frog might object.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

So did Poland give them their Migs?

Poland is saying they did not.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ukraine military kills a top Russian general

Ukrainian defense forces say they killed Russian Maj. Gen. Andrei Sukhovetsky in combat earlier this week.

www.yahoo.com

 

[The Basket]

I read no. No Fulcrums.

So who knows what we are reading.

 

[buffnut453]

Another unintended consequence...a steady stream of Russians crossing the border into Finland:

At Finland's border crossing with Russia at Vaalimaa, 120 miles (193 kilometres) east of Helsinki, buses and cars stop for passport and customs checks.

These aren't Ukrainians, they're Russians - and although the flow isn't heavy, it is constant.

People are anxious to get out of Russia because there has been a persistent rumour that Vladimir Putin's government might soon introduce martial law to deal with demonstrations against the invasion of Ukraine.

We spoke to one young Russian woman who was leaving for the West. She was in despair at what has been happening.

"People in Ukraine are our people – our family," she says. "We shouldn't be killing them."

Would she think of going back, I asked?

"Not while our dreadful government is there. It is so, so sad."

There's immense sympathy for people like her in Finland, just as there is for Ukraine and its inhabitants.

This sympathy, and the fear that Russia might lash out at other neighbours like Finland itself, is changing attitudes to Finland's traditional neutrality.

According to the latest opinion polls, a growing majority of Finns believe that it's time for their country to join Nato and get the protection that membership of the alliance would bring.

 

[GrauGeist]

Just a thought, but the announcement of NATO nations specifically supplying fighter aircraft to the Ukraine could be used as an excuse for Putin to retaliate.

So it seems to me, that the announcement would be retracted in the media.

Now, if the Jets "just happened" to quietly find their way to the Ukraine, that's a different matter...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Just a thought, but the announcement of NATO nations specifically supplying fighter aircraft to the Ukraine could be used as an excuse for Putin to retaliate.

So it seems to me, that the announcement would be retracted in the media.

Now, if the Jets "just happened" to quietly find their way to the Ukraine, that's a different matter...

That's what I am thinking as well.

 

[Marcel]

So Putin is not responsible for his actions? Because of what happened in the former Yugoslavia?

I dont understand the logic.

I didn't say that, relax.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Regardless, I am honestly getting more worried. I think Putin knows there is no endgame, and this is his "last stand" and he is perfectly ok with everyone burning with him.

 

[buffnut453]

Regardless, I am honestly getting more worried. I think Putin knows there is no endgame, and this is his "last stand" and he is perfectly ok with everyone burning with him.

Agreed. Putin has stated previously that there would be "no world without Russia" (similar statements were made in the past few days by one of his lackeys). Putin seems to believe that he IS Russia...which adds to my angst.