Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
So, Russians are invading Finland. Shouldn't this trigger an Article 5 intervention?
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again."
- Thread starter XBe02Drvr
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buffnut453
Captain
The escalation in nuclear rhetoric continues:
Medvedev says nuclear weapons could be used to defend Russia-backed territories
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev seemed to square away any ambiguity with regards to the use of nuclear weapons.
Medevedev said any weapons in Moscow's arsenal, including strategic nuclear weapons, could be used to defend territories joined to Russia from Ukraine, Reuters reported.
Medvedev, who also serves as deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said that referendums planned by Russian-installed and separatist authorities in large swathes of Ukrainian territory will take place, and "there is no going back", according to the news agency.
"The Western establishment and all citizens of Nato countries in general need to understand that Russia has chosen its own path," he said.
And, in case there are questions about the regional referenda, this piece shows the 4 regions that we all expect will join Russia (because the referenda will be about as free and fair as Putin's own "democratic" election):
Four Russian-occupied regions to hold votes on joining Russia
From tomorrow to 27 September, four Russian-occupied regions of Ukraine - Donetsk and Luhansk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in the south - will hold so-called referendums on joining Russia.
The so-called Donetsk People's Republic declared the fourth and fifth days of voting as public holidays, while the Luhansk People's Republic authorties have promised to announce vote results on 28 September.
Moscow-backed separatists have controlled large parts of the industrial Donbas area since 2014, while the regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia were occupied after Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February.
In a televised address on Wednesday, Putin said Russia needed to support those in Ukraine who wanted to "determine their own future". The EU has said it will not recognise the results of the votes.
Today Russian news agency RIA Novosti shared an image showing flyers it says are being handed out in Luhansk.
Under the headline "Russia is the future", the flyer reads: "We are united by a 1,000-year history. For centuries we were part of the same great country. The break-up of the united state was a huge political catastrophe: millions of relatives suddenly found themselves separated by an artificial border. It's time to restore historical justice."
This statement encapsulates Russia's claims to the region, which it says is part of "the historical lands of Novorossiya" - the 18th century area that was part of during the Russian Empire and which later became part of Ukraine.
Senior Russian lawmaker Konstantin Kosachev has weighed in on the referendums, saying that once they are over "it won't be Russia's right but its duty to protect the those regions" - adding an attack on those lands will be an attack on Russia "with all its consequences".
Medvedev says nuclear weapons could be used to defend Russia-backed territories
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev seemed to square away any ambiguity with regards to the use of nuclear weapons.
Medevedev said any weapons in Moscow's arsenal, including strategic nuclear weapons, could be used to defend territories joined to Russia from Ukraine, Reuters reported.
Medvedev, who also serves as deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said that referendums planned by Russian-installed and separatist authorities in large swathes of Ukrainian territory will take place, and "there is no going back", according to the news agency.
"The Western establishment and all citizens of Nato countries in general need to understand that Russia has chosen its own path," he said.
And, in case there are questions about the regional referenda, this piece shows the 4 regions that we all expect will join Russia (because the referenda will be about as free and fair as Putin's own "democratic" election):
Four Russian-occupied regions to hold votes on joining Russia
From tomorrow to 27 September, four Russian-occupied regions of Ukraine - Donetsk and Luhansk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in the south - will hold so-called referendums on joining Russia.
The so-called Donetsk People's Republic declared the fourth and fifth days of voting as public holidays, while the Luhansk People's Republic authorties have promised to announce vote results on 28 September.
Moscow-backed separatists have controlled large parts of the industrial Donbas area since 2014, while the regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia were occupied after Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February.
In a televised address on Wednesday, Putin said Russia needed to support those in Ukraine who wanted to "determine their own future". The EU has said it will not recognise the results of the votes.
Today Russian news agency RIA Novosti shared an image showing flyers it says are being handed out in Luhansk.
Under the headline "Russia is the future", the flyer reads: "We are united by a 1,000-year history. For centuries we were part of the same great country. The break-up of the united state was a huge political catastrophe: millions of relatives suddenly found themselves separated by an artificial border. It's time to restore historical justice."
This statement encapsulates Russia's claims to the region, which it says is part of "the historical lands of Novorossiya" - the 18th century area that was part of during the Russian Empire and which later became part of Ukraine.
Senior Russian lawmaker Konstantin Kosachev has weighed in on the referendums, saying that once they are over "it won't be Russia's right but its duty to protect the those regions" - adding an attack on those lands will be an attack on Russia "with all its consequences".
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Not a problem. Russia invading Finland? Finland don't need no NATO.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Meanwhile, China seems a tad unhappy about this latest decision of his:
A spokesman for China's foreign ministry urged Russia and Ukraine to reach a "ceasefire through dialogue" on Wednesday after Russian leader Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of Russia's conscripted reservists—a step that could mark an escalation of the Russian invasion and has already led to protests in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.
"We always maintain that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be respected, the purposes and principles of the UN Charter should be abided by, [and] the legitimate security concerns of all countries should be taken seriously," foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a press conference. "All efforts conducive to the peaceful resolution of crises should be supported."
"China calls on relevant parties to properly resolve their differences through dialogue and consultation, and is willing to work with the international community to continue to play a constructive role in de-escalating the situation," he added.
The foreign ministry's statement comes only one day after Putin announced the partial mobilization, which he emphasized was necessary in order to preserve Russia's security against the "collective West."
nationalinterest.org
I think they'll still buy the cheap Russian oil, but China replacing resources and imported tech goods may slow down if not halt?
A spokesman for China's foreign ministry urged Russia and Ukraine to reach a "ceasefire through dialogue" on Wednesday after Russian leader Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of Russia's conscripted reservists—a step that could mark an escalation of the Russian invasion and has already led to protests in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.
"We always maintain that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be respected, the purposes and principles of the UN Charter should be abided by, [and] the legitimate security concerns of all countries should be taken seriously," foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a press conference. "All efforts conducive to the peaceful resolution of crises should be supported."
"China calls on relevant parties to properly resolve their differences through dialogue and consultation, and is willing to work with the international community to continue to play a constructive role in de-escalating the situation," he added.
The foreign ministry's statement comes only one day after Putin announced the partial mobilization, which he emphasized was necessary in order to preserve Russia's security against the "collective West."
China Calls for Ceasefire in Ukraine After Russian Mobilization
“China calls on relevant parties to properly resolve their differences through dialogue and consultation,” foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a press conference.
nationalinterest.org
I think they'll still buy the cheap Russian oil, but China replacing resources and imported tech goods may slow down if not halt?
He was referring to all the Russian draft age men fleeing across the border into Finland.
Admiral Beez
Captain
No country within reach of Russia should want any sizable Russian minority population within their borders.He was referring to all the Russian draft age men fleeing across the border into Finland.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
LOL - got it, but then again...He was referring to all the Russian draft age men fleeing across the border into Finland.
buffnut453
Captain
I'm afraid ethnic nationalism has been a causal factor (or, more accurately, an excuse) for wars since the dawn of time. Sudentenland. Arab-Israeli Wars, Former Yugloslavia, countless African conflicts etc etc. Humans are a tribal species and we like to congregate with people who are like "us," thus causing everyone else to be "them." Geopolitical boundaries hinder those "us" and "them" aggregations but even if we removed the concept of "nation" such wars would still happen wherever there are touch-points between "us" and "them" and regardless of the criteria used to make the us/them distinction.
Admiral Beez
Captain
Agreed. The problem specific to Russians though is that wherever they go Putin's government uses their very existence as an excuse for defacto annexation.
There is no lasting peace in a country bordering Russia that has a large Russian minority. It's only a matter of time before Russian separatist sentiment rises up and you end up with Moscow-backed breakaway "Republics", including Donetsk PR, Luhansk PR, Crimea, Abkhazia, South Ossetian and Transnistria. If NATO didn't protect them, Russia would now be poking at the Baltic states with their large Russian minorities, claiming they need protection.
I think Georgia is only fair to worry that this latest onrush of Russians may include a Trojan Horse.
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Finland mulls barring Russians from entering as border traffic grows
VAALIMAA, Finland (Reuters) -Finland said on Thursday it was considering barring most Russians from entering the country as traffic across the border from its eastern neighbour "intensified" following President Vladimir Putin's order for a partial military mobilisation. Finnish land border...
Zelenskyy urged UN officials to ask Russian representatives why their military is 'so obsessive with castration' after sharing what was found in Izium
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered a speech on Wednesday at the UN General Assembly, calling for peace and punishment against Russia.
Kremlin hints that mobilisation notices to be further handed out at protest rallies
STANISLAV POHORILOV - THURSDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2022, 13:53 Dmitry Peskov, the press secretary of the President of Russia, states that handing out mobilisation notices at protest rallies against partial mobilisation does not contradict Russian laws, hinting that the authorities will continue to do so.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I'm still shaking my head at Medvedev's idiotic statement about using nukes on the "breakaway" regions.
Isn't Russia supposedly there to "liberate" them?
Unless he means that they're going to liberate their souls from their Nazi oppressed bodies as a kind and benevolent gesture...
Isn't Russia supposedly there to "liberate" them?
Unless he means that they're going to liberate their souls from their Nazi oppressed bodies as a kind and benevolent gesture...
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Is it Peskov's son that is avoiding the draft? I saw a site in which his son (I think) was trolled by journalists pretending to be Russian MoD, asking where his forms were.
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,137
- May 13, 2018
Wouldn't putting protesters in the military and arming them be a danger to the establishment?
buffnut453
Captain
No, he's saying that if the referenda in the "liberated" regions vote to join Russia, then Moscow will use nukes to defend them as an attack against them will be construed as an attack against Mother Russia.
It's some very dangerous escalation, IMHO. It will be interesting to see if the bluff gets called and, if so, what the (non-nuclear) fallout will be.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,312
- Jul 5, 2015
Chinese are very pragmatic. This war is hurting world economy and they need to sell their products to the whole world.Meanwhile, China seems a tad unhappy about this latest decision of his:
A spokesman for China's foreign ministry urged Russia and Ukraine to reach a "ceasefire through dialogue" on Wednesday after Russian leader Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of Russia's conscripted reservists—a step that could mark an escalation of the Russian invasion and has already led to protests in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.
"We always maintain that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be respected, the purposes and principles of the UN Charter should be abided by, [and] the legitimate security concerns of all countries should be taken seriously," foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a press conference. "All efforts conducive to the peaceful resolution of crises should be supported."
"China calls on relevant parties to properly resolve their differences through dialogue and consultation, and is willing to work with the international community to continue to play a constructive role in de-escalating the situation," he added.
The foreign ministry's statement comes only one day after Putin announced the partial mobilization, which he emphasized was necessary in order to preserve Russia's security against the "collective West."
China Calls for Ceasefire in Ukraine After Russian Mobilization
“China calls on relevant parties to properly resolve their differences through dialogue and consultation,” foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told a press conference.
I think they'll still buy the cheap Russian oil, but China replacing resources and imported tech goods may slow down if not halt?
Besides, I bet they are even less happy about the referenda. After all it could be a precedent for Taiwan.
That being said, they can't say no to cheap oil and gas.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Kremlin hints that mobilisation notices to be further handed out at protest rallies
STANISLAV POHORILOV - THURSDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2022, 13:53 Dmitry Peskov, the press secretary of the President of Russia, states that handing out mobilisation notices at protest rallies against partial mobilisation does not contradict Russian laws, hinting that the authorities will continue to do so.www.yahoo.com
Yeah, I'd want anti-war activists filling my ranks too.
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
All they have to do is absorb a few bullets, so the "professionals" can do their jobs.
