"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

Indeed. And he sets a dangerous precedent for Russia to adhere to. China grabbing some land and holding a sham referendum, for example.
Beau (of the Fifth Column) always describes international affairs as "that eternal poker game where everyone's cheating, there's no room for morality or sentiment, no right or wrong, and the only measure of success is power".
 
More from the BBC:

Every day, convoys of people arrive in a supermarket car park in Zaporizhzhia city, escorted in by police vehicles.

They've made the hazardous trip out of Russian-occupied territory in southern Ukraine, finally reaching the relative safety of this regional capital still firmly under Ukrainian control.

And yet this is one of four Ukrainian regions that Russia is formally annexing, after a five-day exercise it called a referendum and Ukraine and the West condemned as a sham.

Among those handing their papers to police is Anton Osenev, who says the Russians tried to mobilise him twice to fight against his own country, around his home city of Melitopol.

"We weren't home for the first attempt," he says. "On the second occasion they stayed at our house for some time".
 
And more...Peskov doesn't know where the borders of Russian-annexed Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are located:

In Moscow, a Kremlin official was today unable to answer a question about the exact borders of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia - two of the four Ukrainian regions that Russia intends to annex later.

Referring to the annexation of Crimea eight years ago, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters: "The Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics are recognised by Russia within 2014 borders."

Asked about the territories of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia - the latter of which is not under complete Russian control - Peskov seemed less certain.

"I need to clarify this, I can't answer this question right now," the AFP news agency quotes him as saying.

The multiple annexations are due to be formalised at 13:00 BST at a so-called signing ceremony.
 
My Uncle lost several buddies in the Pacific during Typhoon Cobra, a few were lost when their Destroyers were sunk and one was swept overboard just as he was about to enter the bridge of my Uncle's destroyer (my Uncle was a signalman).

Most of the 700+ guys survived intense combat, only to be taken by mother nature during that storm.
 
Isn't there a rule about membership can't be granted to those nations involved in an existing dispute/conflict?
 
I wouldn't say Russia but rather a dictator and a proper leader. remember this war isn't meant to be against the Russian people but rather the thugs supporting/enabling Putin.
I agree, but the attraction to, and the enabling of, a strongman like Putin by the Russian people is an artifact of a millennium of survival under autocratic rule, with all the behaviors, traditions, and attitudes that entails, notably the devaluation of human life other than their tribal circle. They've never had the opportunity to develop liberal democratic reflexes, traditions, and behaviors. Confidence in these things comes with education and experience, which they've never had. They have the leadership they deserve and prefer.
 
I'm not sure they prefer it, and I don't think they deserve it, but they've certainly been trained for it over the centuries.
Certainly they've been trained for it, so deeply that when they had a fleeting chance to grasp for something better, they couldn't overcome their ingrained habits and embark on the scary and complex path to a modern democracy. Their history is of leadership by personality, not by rule of law, with its (sometimes misplaced) faith in the integrity of those elected to uphold that law and the rights it supports. Scary thought if your experience is of corruption, oppression, and vodka.
 
Isn't there a rule about membership can't be granted to those nations involved in an existing dispute/conflict?
I think it's President Zelenskyy thumbing his nose at Vladolph. Putler was ranting about NATO expansion. Earlier in the war, Ukraine not applying to NATO and Ukrainian neutrality were among the talking points (I think). "Well screw you, putler. No more Mr. Nice guy, I'm applying to NATO. "
 
Last edited:

The bitch about democracy is that it requires active participation in order to succeed. The Russians as a nation don't seem to have that; it's been beaten out of them by various tsars, party secretaries, and this latest, er, president.

In one sense it's like infantry, they've been trained to stay low and hug the earth -- so finding the lieutenant who stands up and says "follow me!" is kind of hard after all this time. Such initiative has been drummed out of many of them. That's not to say all; their dissidents are and through history have been brave, forthright, clever.
 

Users who are viewing this thread