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My understanding of the process is that you don't formally ask the originating country (Germany in this case) for permission as if they say no there is a certain amount of political embarrassment. What happens is the you first make an enquiry to get a feel for the likely response. Then you make the formal requestAs evidenced by the Polish Prime Minister's own words it is now apparent that they have not asked permission. They were quite happy to blame Germany for saying No but it seems that they never actually bothered to ask in the first place. Hence my comments about playing games...
I like the idea of sending refurbished Challenger 1 tanks. Its clearly older but its still a very good tank. I think a Challenger 1 holds the record for the longest ranged kill in combat.Not sure how realistic this would be:
Rheinmetall is ready to undertake the modernization of Leopard 1 and Challenger 1 tanks for Ukraine.
Rheinmetall is ready to undertake the modernization of Leopard 1 and Challenger 1 tanks for Ukraine. - Warubn.news
There was a meeting of 50 countries to discuss sending further equipment to Ukraine, and pressure Germany to give approval on 20th January. From what I read, it's not only Poland waiting for approval, but they may be the noisiest ones.
Somehow I don't think that would have happened if Germany were simply 'waiting for Poland to formally request approval'. There are a lot of negotiations that go on prior to formally requesting these things. The formal request is almost the last step in the process.
I think there's probably a lot of back-room elbowing being done not only in Brussels but also in the individual capitals for the reasonDerAdlerIstGelandet mentioned, the issue of denuding one's own forces before receiving backfill in an evolving situation.
My understanding of the process is that you don't formally ask the originating country (Germany in this case) for permission as if they say no there is a certain amount of political embarrassment. What happens is the you first make an enquiry to get a feel for the likely response. Then you make the formal request
Here Poland made the enquiry, Germany heavily indicated that the reply would be 'No'. Poland and others have said that Germany are getting in the way. Germany have defended themselves by saying that they haven't had a formal request. Which of course is technically true, as you don't make a formal request unless you believe the response is going to be 'Yes'.
Now Poland seem to be calling the German's bluff and are saying they may do it anyway, and Germany is saying that they will not say no, or yes, just will not get in their way.
So far so good, but Poland (and Ukraine) will no doubt want to know if Germany will supply spares as you cannot really go to war on a maybe, as a Leopard II is a very expensive Pillbox.
I am now going to go and lie down as my brain hurts, and hope someone can understand the above.
Don't you love politics
Jordan needs their tanks. How many Challenger 1s would be available from Britain? Does it fire the same ammo as the Challenger 2?I like the idea of sending refurbished Challenger 1 tanks. Its clearly older but its still a very good tank. I think a Challenger 1 holds the record for the longest ranged kill in combat.
Jordon had a lot of them which may be available.
As to denuding tank and aircraft parks for NATO members. So what ? Who were they made to stop in the first place and
what does that country have left to attack with anyway ?
Fair points. If/when Canada gives up its Leopard 2s to Ukraine I can almost guarantee we will never again operate MBTs.But what about other, non-NATO, defence requirements and priorities?
As I pointed out in my earlier post, removing a large proportion of your front-line force isn't something that's easily fixed. Doing without can lead to years of effort to rebuild combat capability.
Poland has now filed the paperwork for exporting Leo2s to Ukraine and Germany confirmed they got them. Let's see how fast the german politicians work on this.
Ukraine, like pretty much every nation with a functioning government has a big issue with corruption. Controlling it is a prerequisite for EU membership, and leading Poland to make strives in this effort, Corruption in Poland - Wikipedia.
Me too. And I think there's some potential for a transfer of Challenger 1 tanks from Jordan to Ukraine. They're likely stored in dry condition, for one.I'd love to see those rolling into Melitopol.