"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (7 Viewers)

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Admiral Beez said:
What's perplexing about Germany is the inconsistency of their positions. On one hand, Germany is the fourth largest provider of weapons and ammunition to Ukraine. They're already committed to the fight. But then they get held up on tanks, until they don't.
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Let's not forget that, despite what has been said/implied in public, it appears that no-one had actually bothered to ask Germany formally re sending tanks. I also believe that in Germany's own case, it is obvious that their Governments (both political sides) have allowed their military to heavily atrophy over the last 2 - 3 decades and that as such Germany didn't feel that they could easily send massive quantities (which they may some day soon require themselves).
Admiral Beez said:
The US is just as bad, refusing tanks or weapons, only to allow them later on, so we must concede that. Unlike Germany, I sense the US is more about dithering than being concerned about repeating or celebrating history.
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I think everyone is still watching to see how this whole situation develops. Remember that at the start many thought that Ukraine would collapse in a matter of days. Since then they have proven this not to be the case and that Russia is somewhat of a paper tiger. That said, things are still very much developing.

That said, I don't believe some $23B in military aid (not counting non-military) over the last 12mths could be referred to as dithering.
 
Regarding Leopard 1, I don't know what is the condition and model that Germany is sending. However, 1A5 is considered the standard leopard 1. Most remaining Leopards are either 1A5 or older models upgraded to (or very similar to) 1A5. I think all those models/upgrades date from the late eighties early nineties.

Although they are not comparable to modern tanks I don't think they will fare worse than Russian t-62 and t-64 who are appearing in Ukraine in increasing numbers. As far as I know more than 100 russian T-62 & T-64 have been visually confirmed to be destroyed or captured by Ukrainians. Maybe they have no chance 1vs 1 against a T-90M but I'm sure Ukrainians will find a role for them. After all, Russian t-62, don't have a chance either against a Leo 2.
 
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RogerdeLluria said:
Regarding Leopard 1, I don't know what is the condition and model that Germany is sending. However, 1A5 is considered the standard leopard 1. Most remaining Leopards are either 1A5 or older models upgraded to (or very similar to) 1A5. I think all those models/upgrades date from the late eighties early nineties.

Although they are not comparable to modern tanks I don't think they will fare worse than Russian t-62 and t-64 who are appearing in Ukraine in increasing numbers. As far as I know more than 100 russian T-62 & T-64 have been visually confirmed to be destroyed or captured by Ukrainians. Maybe they have no chance 1vs 1 against a T-90M but I'm sure Urainiansd will find a role for them. After all, Russian t-62, don't have a chance either against a Leo 2.
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Agree - even used in infantry support roles
 
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