"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)

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J_P_C said:

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1638488137893552130

what next?? T-34??
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T-55 vs. Leopard 2? Yeah, that's going to go well.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7FUjVHx46c

Challenger passing T-55. Look at the size.

de241c8c7479b1351f6bc549c5e05f52.jpg
 
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Dimlee said:
On a lighter note. Soup-centricity is important in air defence :)
"They like soup. They're very, you know, soup-centric"
www.politico.com

‘Absolutely a quick study’: Ukrainians master Patriot system faster than expected

“They are the best of the best in what they do in air defense for Ukraine," a U.S. general said.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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I said a long while back the Ukrainians would master western weapons far faster than the experts thought possible - as this clip shows I was right - about 8 weeks instead of 52. I still expect western aircraft to be mastered far faster as well.

When the Pentagon announced in January that the Ukrainians would begin their training in Fort Sill, officials cautioned that the instruction could take months — even up to a year. But U.S. military officials here said the Ukrainians, who were already experienced air defenders when they arrived in January and were handpicked by Kyiv to complete the instruction, mastered the American system much faster than expected.
Now, they are just about ready to use it on the battlefield to protect Ukrainian cities and infrastructure from Russian attacks.
 
RogerdeLluria said:
Going back to the t54/55.

I'm wondering if Bradleys, CV90s and AMX-10s are good enough to deal with them easily.
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The Bradley with its AT missile and the AMX10RC would be more than capable of taking on a T55 or T62 but they are also vulnerable to the tanks. The huge advantage would be the far better sensors and night vision on the modern equipment
 
MiTasol said:
I said a long while back the Ukrainians would master western weapons far faster than the experts thought possible - as this clip shows I was right - about 8 weeks instead of 52. I still expect western aircraft to be mastered far faster as well.

When the Pentagon announced in January that the Ukrainians would begin their training in Fort Sill, officials cautioned that the instruction could take months — even up to a year. But U.S. military officials here said the Ukrainians, who were already experienced air defenders when they arrived in January and were handpicked by Kyiv to complete the instruction, mastered the American system much faster than expected.
Now, they are just about ready to use it on the battlefield to protect Ukrainian cities and infrastructure from Russian attacks.
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They've got a level of motivation that peace-time soldiers don't.
 
Glider said:
The Bradley with its AT missile and the AMX10RC would be more than capable of taking on a T55 or T62 but they are also vulnerable to the tanks. The huge advantage would be the far better sensors and night vision on the modern equipment
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The main mission of both is not tank engagement.
The Bradley is an IFV in its M2 form and a recon vehicle if a M3 CFV variant.
The AMX 10 RC is a recon vehicle.
Both would be in serious trouble if used in duration form against tanks.
On the other end, the M2 is perfect to taxi infantry used with tank support and the M3 and AMX 10 RC niche is reconnaissance in force.
 
RogerdeLluria said:
Going back to the t54/55.

I'm wondering if Bradleys, CV90s and AMX-10s are good enough to deal with them easily.
Click to expand...

Bradley - yes, with TOW only though. 25mm APFSDS might penetrate some side armour towards the rear section of the turret of unmodernised T-54/55 at ranges under about 250m.

CV90 - no. The 40mm firing modern APFSDS can theoretically penetrate some sections of the turret side armour of a base T-54/55 under about 1000m, but just barely. Even then, they'd have to be shooting perpendicular to the target and get very luck with the angle of impact. In anything other than absolutely idea conditions, most likely unable to penetrate a modernised T-55 unless hitting from the rear arc.

AMX-10 - yes, with some caveats.

French 105mm HEAT ammunition should be able to get through the frontal turret armour of pretty much any T-54/55 variant, even those modernised in the 1970s and 1980s with applique turret and glacis armour and basic ERA (AM1 and AM2 models). The current L51 HEAT-T round has penetration rated 'above 400mm' or 'better than M456A1' by the manufacturers, with some sources stating penetration of around 440-450mm. That's enough to get through anywhere on the turret, except for oblique strikes on the 'Dolly Parton' applique. Hull penetration is a bit more hit and miss, with some parts vulnerable and other parts rated at above 800mm

French 105mm F3 APFSDS should also be good to get through anywhere on the turret, although exact penetration data is hard to find. AMX-10 uses a medium pressure gun pumping an APFSDS down range at ~1400m/sec. Based on published specs of similar French APFSDS from the 1980s, the F3 105mm would have penetration of around 290mm to 320mm at 1500m. That's enough to defeat a modernised T-55 across most of the frontal arc at that range, except for some parts of the turret and upper glacis with applique armour.
 
Jabberwocky said:
French 105mm HEAT ammunition should be able to get through the frontal turret armour of pretty much any T-54/55 variant,

French 105mm F3 APFSDS should also be good to get through anywhere on the turret, although exact penetration data is hard to find.
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Speaking of 105mm rounds, thoughts on the ex-Slovenian M-55 and its L7 gun vs. a worked over Russian T-55?

yvacb4jbiqo31.jpg
Victory_park_%28Kazan%29_%28262-14%29.jpg


If the Ukrainians capture any T-55s they can convert them to T-55AGM - Wikipedia
 
Admiral Beez said:
Speaking of 105mm rounds, thoughts on the ex-Slovenian M-55 and its L7 gun vs. a worked over Russian T-55?
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Depends on the rounds being fired, but almost any APFSDS made in the West since roughly the mid 1980s it should have no problems penetrating any T-55. Exception would be a couple of zones of invulnerability for deeply modernised versions with the applique armour, or versions with applique armour AND Kontact1 ERA.

European tungsten alloy long rod penetrators of the time (DM33, NP 105 and similar) were generally rated at better than 400mm of penetration at 2000m and 450-470 plus at the muzzle. Later rounds (early 1990s onwards) bumped this up over 500mm.

EDIT: Looks like IMI/Elbit Systems were/are supplying ammunition for the Slovenian M-55s. So, it's likely that any AFPSDS round is going to be the M426/Hetz-10 3rd generation round or the even more modern SWORD-T fourth generation round. M426 has been in production since the early 1990s is rated at more than 470mm at 2000m.
 
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Russian military bloggers and analysts now warning of a possible Ukrainian offensive developing around mid April. Some Ukrainian politicians and military commanders are also promising something major will happen "soon".

I'm skeptical about that timing, for a couple of reasons.

Ground conditions - long range weather forecast is for a combination of snow and rain out to the end of March, and then warming in April. Meaning snowmelt and thawing ground. Not great for launching an offensive
Training - There are Ukrainian soldiers training with nine partner nations. As of late February, about 10,000 had completed their training. There's no confirmed public domain numbers on training, but if all PR statements are to be believed, there's another 40,000 to 50,000 Ukrainians (and possibly as many as 70,000) that are due to complete their training in partner nations by the end of June.
Equipping new units - Ukraine continues to form new brigades, particularly mechanised brigades. However, less than a third of these are considered equipped for combat. The biggest things that are missing are vehicles - tanks, IFVs, APCs and light wheeled vehicles. Around 200 tanks, 400 APCs and IFVs and at least 600 light wheeled vehicles are due to go to these newly formed units in the next few months.
Battlefield preparation - Russian units are still largely cohesive on the battlefield. While Ukraine has enjoyed the benefits of higher exchange rates during Russia's winter offensive, I don't think we've seen the dislocation between units that was the hallmark of the Kharkiv offensive. Nor have Russian rear areas been disrupted like they were in the weeks proceeding the start of the attack.

I'd be surprised if anything major starts to develop until mid May.
 
Was reading on the t-55 to learn a bit. Was amazed to know that almost 100,000 where produced around the world, 70.000 in the soviet union. Wondering how many of those remain and how many of the remaining ones can be put back into working condition. Some rumors suggest that the t-55 won't be sent to Ukraine. They are being sent to Syria. We will see.

On a side note I realized that the toy tanks I played when I was a child where modeled after the t-55, and no, I'm not a millennial, I'm close to retirement, lmao.
 
Jabberwocky said:
Depends on the rounds being fired, but almost any APFSDS made in the West since roughly the mid 1980s it should have no problems penetrating any T-55. Exception would be a couple of zones of invulnerability for deeply modernised versions with the applique armour, or versions with applique armour AND Kontact1 ERA.

European tungsten alloy long rod penetrators of the time (DM33, NP 105 and similar) were generally rated at better than 400mm of penetration at 2000m and 450-470 plus at the muzzle. Later rounds (early 1990s onwards) bumped this up over 500mm.

EDIT: Looks like IMI/Elbit Systems were/are supplying ammunition for the Slovenian M-55s. So, it's likely that any AFPSDS round is going to be the M426/Hetz-10 3rd generation round or the even more modern SWORD-T fourth generation round. M426 has been in production since the early 1990s is rated at more than 470mm at 2000m.
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I am late to this party. All my manuals are packed away. The above post sounds correct. As a old tanker, I can tell you that even upgraded, the T55, T62, and some versions of the T72 is no match for either the modern 105 or 120 mm rounds. The only reason to use them if that is all you can afford and it's going against other tanks from the same generation. Same as our M48 and M60 models. Really pushing it with the M60A3. All you have to do is look at the Gulf War.

Bradley is a tank killer with the Tow system. But as said earlier, that not it's purpose. Having to reload after only 2 shots is a negative. Used as a inf support system, it is lethal. The best tank killer is always another MBT. CAS and atk helos are deadly tank killers if you have air parity or total control.

Klank, klank, I'm a tank.
 
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