"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (16 Viewers)

Admiral Beez · May 20, 2023

What's entailed in transitioning from MiG-29 to F-16? Would Ukraine be better off using older model F-16 that may have some analog displays they're more use to? I assume only qualified MiG or SuKhoi pilots will be sent for training on the F-16.

I would find the differences in the Russian and NATO Attitude Indicator (AI) confusing, especially under stress.

swampyankee · May 20, 2023

machine shop tom said:
With the exception of the Jews.

Yes; he decided they were non-citizens.

Admiral Beez · May 20, 2023

swampyankee said:
Yes; he decided they were non-citizens.

Which is why today, the Jewish people, while living an idyllic Mediterranean life are armed and ready. They know that anyone who invades isn't coming for land, but to finish what Hitler started. Same goes for Ukraine, which is why a powerful deterrence is their only assurance.

Admiral Beez · May 20, 2023

Has the Yak-130 seen any service over Ukraine?

SaparotRob · May 20, 2023

That's a new one for me.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 20, 2023

Admiral Beez said:
Has the Yak-130 seen any service over Ukraine?

View attachment 721740

My understanding is that all Yak-130s in Russian service are trainers only. The planned ground attack variant has not entered service yet.

GrauGeist · May 21, 2023

Glider said:
It isn't often that I agree with most of an official Russian statement. It all depends on how you look at it. Lets take it a step at a time:-

A top Russian official warned Western countries of "enormous risks" if they supply Ukraine with F-16 fighter aircrafts.
There are enormous risks if Ukraine is supplied with F16's. Its just that All the risk is to Russia, not NATO. After all, these aircraft are almost obsolete in NATO and are being replaced with F35 and other more advanced aircraft

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko told the state-run Russian news agency TASS that Ukraine's Western allies are continuing to escalate the conflict.
That is the idea of the support of any kind. To give Ukraine the means to defend themselves and that inevitably extends the length of the invasion, increasing the cost and risk to Russia. By having to involve more resources and people than planned that could be described as an escalation to the original plan

And the Kremlin will take their plan to send the F-16s into account.
Of course they will, that is the general idea.

Oh really?

I'm still waiting on Russia to fulfill it's promise to levy "dire consequences" on Finland if they joined NATO.

Anything else that has transpired in the past 13 months would pale in comparison to such an ~~event~~ spectacular ass kicking by the founder of the "f**k around and find out" club.

Wildcat · May 21, 2023

RogerdeLluria said:
Now that there seems to be a green light for F-16. What about some F-18 too. Not instead of F-16 but in addition to F-16.

Australia's Mothballed F/A-18 Hornets Should Be Given To Ukraine

Dozens of upgraded F/A-18s in storage in Australia after years waiting to be sent to the U.S. should be donated immediately to Ukraine.

www.thedrive.com

Can't help but think the Aus government is holding onto these in case of war with China.

Thumpalumpacus · May 21, 2023

GrauGeist said:
I'm still waiting on Russia to fulfill it's promise to levy "dire consequences" on Finland if they joined NATO.

Anything else that has transpired in the past 13 months would pale in comparison to such an ~~event~~ spectacular ass kicking by the founder of the "f**k around and find out" club.

Russian threats carry about as much heft as feathers, after all this bluster. As we'd say in the pool halls off Highway 80 on the west end of Fort Worth, "Quit talkin' and start chalkin'."

Thumpalumpacus · May 21, 2023

From ISW:

US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan stated on May 20 that the United States may agree to transfer modern combat aircraft to Ukraine, including the F-16, on the condition that Ukraine does not use them to strike Russian territory. Sullivan stated the war in Ukraine has "evolved" and that F-16 fourth-generation fighter aircraft have now become "part of that mix" of weapons that Ukraine will need as part of a "future force to be able to deter and defend against Russian aggression as we go forward."[12] Sullivan stated that any F-16s given to Ukraine – like other Western weapons provided to Ukraine – will be provided under the condition that they do not strike Russian territory.[13] Sullivan also stated that training Ukrainian pilots to use F-16s is the "obvious first step" and that the next steps are to "determine how to do the actual provision of planes."[14] US President Joe Biden informed G7 leaders on May 19 that Washington will support a joint effort to train Ukrainian pilots on F-16s and other fourth generation aircraft but did not pledge that the US will send Ukraine the F-16s.[15]

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

Interesting wording ... "including the F-16".

GrauGeist · May 21, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
From ISW:

US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan stated on May 20 that the United States may agree to transfer modern combat aircraft to Ukraine, including the F-16, on the condition that Ukraine does not use them to strike Russian territory. Sullivan stated the war in Ukraine has "evolved" and that F-16 fourth-generation fighter aircraft have now become "part of that mix" of weapons that Ukraine will need as part of a "future force to be able to deter and defend against Russian aggression as we go forward."[12] Sullivan stated that any F-16s given to Ukraine – like other Western weapons provided to Ukraine – will be provided under the condition that they do not strike Russian territory.[13] Sullivan also stated that training Ukrainian pilots to use F-16s is the "obvious first step" and that the next steps are to "determine how to do the actual provision of planes."[14] US President Joe Biden informed G7 leaders on May 19 that Washington will support a joint effort to train Ukrainian pilots on F-16s and other fourth generation aircraft but did not pledge that the US will send Ukraine the F-16s.[15]

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

Interesting wording ... "including the F-16".

I've mentioned before that Ukraine plays it's cards close to it's chest - there is more going on behind the curtain than what's being covered in the media.

SaparotRob · May 21, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
Interesting wording ... "including the F-16".

I know, right? They don't have F-16s yet but is it so wrong to imagine F-15Es in Ukrainian colors?

Thumpalumpacus · May 21, 2023

SaparotRob said:
I know, right? They don't have F-16s yet but is it so wrong to imagine F-15Es in Ukrainian colors?

"Wart-HOG! Wart-HOG!"

SaparotRob · May 21, 2023

I'm just thinking if you're doing the missile chucking thing, do it right. However, the A-10 does do an impressive Death From The Sky routine, up close and personal.

XBe02Drvr · May 21, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
"Wart-HOG! Wart-HOG!"

"STRELA magnet! STRELA magnet!"

syscom3 · May 21, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
"Wart-HOG! Wart-HOG!"

Wouldnt last long in todays modern air defenses.

Thumpalumpacus · May 21, 2023

syscom3 said:
Wouldnt last long in todays modern air defenses.

I was hoping, given the context of the earlier discussion in this thread, that this post of mine would be understood as the joke it was -- though I do confess wondering how robust Russian AAD is, given their expenditure of many S-300s against ground targets, and their seeming incompetence n other aspects of modern war.

GrauGeist · May 21, 2023

Well, then if today's modern air defenses are that impressive, then the F-16 is off the table, too.

So now what?

Glider · May 21, 2023

SaparotRob said:
I know, right? They don't have F-16s yet but is it so wrong to imagine F-15Es in Ukrainian colors?

I was thinking of the F18 Super Hornet. The USN have fairly recently retired theirs and there must be more than a few sitting in the desert waiting to be converted to Targets.

Regarding the comment 'including F16's'. I would like to see some Attack Helicopters being sent to Ukraine, AH-1's would do nicely

machine shop tom · May 21, 2023

Glider said:
I was thinking of the F18 Super Hornet. The USN have fairly recently retired theirs and there must be more than a few sitting in the desert waiting to be converted to Targets.

Regarding the comment 'including F16's'. I would like to see some Attack Helicopters being sent to Ukraine, AH-1's would do nicely

They did not retire the Super Hornets (F,E.) They retired the legacy Hornets(A-D).

"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (16 Viewers)

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