"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (14 Viewers)

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Putting this here not as an attack on Ukraine or to support those who would point to this as a proof for this misguided pro-Russia fantasies but rather to show some of the facts behind headlines and to show how Ukraine is not afraid of making tough decisions in the middle of a war.

www.politico.eu

Corruption, fraud and Ukraine’s defense minister

The ministry’s occasional failures should be weighed judiciously against Reznikov’s impressive record of accomplishments.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
GTX said:
It's quite pathetic how some are so desperate to argue against the war/for Russia that they rely on such weak individuals to justify their position. They are either desperate or delusional...or both.
Click to expand...

Sadly, Macgregor is clearly a very intelligent man. Unfortunately, I think his ego outstrips his abilities.

He retired as a colonel because he failed multiple times to be selected to command a brigade (which would have brought promotion to 1-star). Of course, he perceives that as a personal slight by general officers who are more interested in people who can navigate bureaucracy rather than win on the battlefield. That excuse ignores the fact that most generals aren't actually ON the battlefield. When you reach star rank, you must consider other factors beyond just military tactics (e.g. integration with other Government departments, convincing Congress on appropriations, encouraging perhaps recalcitrant Allies and partners etc.).

Macgregor was identified by colleagues as "arrogant." He clearly wasn't general officer material. I've personally known a great many star-rank officers of multiple services and even multiple countries. Almost to a person, they've been humble, warfighter-focused, and incredibly able to integrate information from hundreds of different directions. They're also able to work the political aspects of their positions to the advantage of their subordinate forces. Macgregor isn't that type of person. He's an arrogant self-promoter, which is probably why his career stalled at the O-6 level.
 
GTX said:
It's quite pathetic how some are so desperate to argue against the war/for Russia that they rely on such weak individuals to justify their position. They are either desperate or delusional...or both.
Click to expand...
Or neither. If you refer to Tucker Carlson as weak, reflect that a.) he was 100% correct in presenting the Hunter Biden laptop as 'real' and not Russian Disinformation; b.) he was 100% correct that Twitter was 'banning and shadowbanning' conservative political leaders at the behest of both Administration and FBI for attempting to even Comment on the Biden laptop, greatly influencing the election of 2020 - as well as banning the NY Post for even reporting on it, c.) calling out the DOJ for citing angry parents at school board meetings as 'domestic terrorists', d.) reporting on the early rumors that CIA/US was behind Nordstream bombing, and e.) joining other pundits to note that Victoria Nuland was not only complicit wrt to threats against Nordstream but also admitting that US had bio labs in Ukraine.

I'm not sure if you think I'm either desperate or delusional. I am neither, nor do I argue for Putin. I despise him and all that he stands for.

Or whether you refer to Ritter or MacGregor as weak individuals?

As a challenge to you and others that have the wisdom and clarity of thought about the facts of the struggle in Ukraine, perhaps you or other individuals attacking either or both - please produce your credentials to debate combat, strategy, hands on experience at Field grade level and knowledge of trainining and logistical realities of the situation with either of Them. Especially YOU.

To add to your portfolio of facts of the matter, please present phased situational maps of the Ukraine positions from October, 2022 through beginning of February to reinforce what you believe to be true? Scratch up reliable TO&E for both forces then and today.

Ditto for reserve status of combat arms for both combatant forces.

Remarks have been made desparaging conscripts. Recall both the experiences of USSR and US at the beginning of WWII and at the end of WWII. A microcosm could be the invasion of North Africa in 1942. US got butt kicked at Kasserine Pass, and Rommels directs gleefully noted the incompetence and projected ease of defeating 'America'. Rommel said 'not so fast'.

To that point, which Army has the latitude to integrade draftees into operational units in dribbles vs throw immediately into the breach? If you are of the opinion that Ukraine has Russia on the run, then why is Ukraine snaching 16 year old pizza boys instead of say 18, when the equivalent of a High School grad is much better suited to growth as NCO. Or are we looking at Volkstrum in 1945 Germany revisited by Ukraine?

Ditto for effectiveness estimates and timing for ANY discussed materiel (air/land arms and spares) Intended (by mouth from politicians known to be congenital liars) for Ukraine forces over the next six months?

Maybe opine on any facts regarding the Musk pullout of satellite coverage? And explain why US or NATO don't immediately a.) replace the Comm coverage, and b.) thank Musk for a year of free coverage when NATO did nothing apparent to the eye. To be candid, I don't have a clue but equally doubt that you do.

There are three domains that many on this thread are unaware of:

1. Compelling array of Facts surrounding a question.
2. Opinions supported by a body of verifiable facts
3. Opinions.

Just about everyone here is in the latter domain, including me, especially you - but each have formed opinions regarding what we read and hear. I read and listen to the same sources that you do, but I don't discount or believe any single message. I like to hear opposing positions because somehow some kernels of truth/facts may emerge.
 
GTX said:
True. Also remember Bonhoeffer's Theory of Stupidity and how intelligent people can also be "Stupid"
Click to expand...

That's an AWESOME video. Thanks for sharing. It's 100% relevant to what we're seeing today.

I think, in part, stupidity is driven by humankind's tribal ancestry. We automatically divide people into groups of "us" and "them", whether it's the sports teams we support, the political parties we endorse, the "otherness" of people with differently-coloured skins, or even those in different social strata. If we always assume "us" are right, then "them" must clearly be wrong. "Them" are the people we don't listen to. "Them" become the enemy.

There's also the tendency of people who are highly-capable in one discipline to believe they're equally capable in other disciplines. I think this is where we tip over from self-confidence to arrogance. A good general officer is humble enough and self-confident enough to know that they have hundreds of experts across all sorts of disciplines, and that integrating the efforts of those experts will deliver better recommendations upon which the general can make a decision. An arrogant general thinks they're the smartest person in the room, regardless of the topic under discussion, inevitably leading to staff not thinking for themselves (because the general does all the thinking anyway) and, ultimately, poor recommendations and decisions.
 
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My comment was focussed on all of those, including commentators such as Tucker Carlson and his ilk who I believe are either desperate or delusional...or both. I twas not an attack on any one individual.
 
drgondog said:
Or neither. If you refer to Tucker Carlson as weak, reflect that a.) he was 100% correct in presenting the Hunter Biden laptop as 'real' and not Russian Disinformation; b.) he was 100% correct that Twitter was 'banning and shadowbanning' conservative political leaders at the behest of both Administration and FBI for attempting to even Comment on the Biden laptop, greatly influencing the election of 2020 - as well as banning the NY Post for even reporting on it, c.) calling out the DOJ for citing angry parents at school board meetings as 'domestic terrorists', d.) reporting on the early rumors that CIA/US was behind Nordstream bombing, and e.) joining other pundits to note that Victoria Nuland was not only complicit wrt to threats against Nordstream but also admitting that US had bio labs in Ukraine.

I'm not sure if you think I'm either desperate or delusional. I am neither, nor do I argue for Putin. I despise him and all that he stands for.

Or whether you refer to Ritter or MacGregor as weak individuals?

As a challenge to you and others that have the wisdom and clarity of thought about the facts of the struggle in Ukraine, perhaps you or other individuals attacking either or both - please produce your credentials to debate combat, strategy, hands on experience at Field grade level and knowledge of trainining and logistical realities of the situation with either of Them. Especially YOU.

To add to your portfolio of facts of the matter, please present phased situational maps of the Ukraine positions from October, 2022 through beginning of February to reinforce what you believe to be true? Scratch up reliable TO&E for both forces then and today.

Ditto for reserve status of combat arms for both combatant forces.

Remarks have been made desparaging conscripts. Recall both the experiences of USSR and US at the beginning of WWII and at the end of WWII. A microcosm could be the invasion of North Africa in 1942. US got butt kicked at Kasserine Pass, and Rommels directs gleefully noted the incompetence and projected ease of defeating 'America'. Rommel said 'not so fast'.

To that point, which Army has the latitude to integrade draftees into operational units in dribbles vs throw immediately into the breach? If you are of the opinion that Ukraine has Russia on the run, then why is Ukraine snaching 16 year old pizza boys instead of say 18, when the equivalent of a High School grad is much better suited to growth as NCO. Or are we looking at Volkstrum in 1945 Germany revisited by Ukraine?

Ditto for effectiveness estimates and timing for ANY discussed materiel (air/land arms and spares) Intended (by mouth from politicians known to be congenital liars) for Ukraine forces over the next six months?

Maybe opine on any facts regarding the Musk pullout of satellite coverage? And explain why US or NATO don't immediately a.) replace the Comm coverage, and b.) thank Musk for a year of free coverage when NATO did nothing apparent to the eye. To be candid, I don't have a clue but equally doubt that you do.

There are three domains that many on this thread are unaware of:

1. Compelling array of Facts surrounding a question.
2. Opinions supported by a body of verifiable facts
3. Opinions.

Just about everyone here is in the latter domain, including me, especially you - but each have formed opinions regarding what we read and hear. I read and listen to the same sources that you do, but I don't discount or believe any single message. I like to hear opposing positions because somehow some kernels of truth/facts may emerge.
Click to expand...
Struck a nerve have I? I do believe ones such as Tucker Carlson and the others mentioned are weak. It is just sad that so many are fooled by him and others especially when only a little fact checking proves much of such garbage wrong.
 
www.thetimes.co.uk

Ukraine prepared to use British missiles to strike Crimea

Ukraine is prepared to use British long-range missiles to hit Crimea, the peninsula annexed by Russia in 2014, in a potential major escalation of western involvement in the war.Rishi Sunak promised to send Ukraine more military aid following a visit by President Zelensky to Britain this week. Discus
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

Paywall free: https://archive.ph/uCSxa
 
"According to her, some of them were destroyed and some were captured by Ukraine."

Being a Russian tank in Ukraine comes with hazards. :evil4:

277300217_10102919163330091_1729017260997823779_n.jpg
 
GTX said:
My comment was focussed on all of those, including commentators such as Tucker Carlson and his ilk who I believe are either desperate or delusional...or both. I twas not an attack on any one individual.
Click to expand...

Let's not try and go overboard. Had someone posted that kind of response to a post of yours, or about your choice of sources you would have reported it to the mods already. Right? ;)
 
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I am re-opening this thread. Please do not let it get out of hand again gentlemen.

  1. If you don't agree with someone's post, do not attack the poster. Use civil adult conversational skills and debate the content.
  2. No political discussion that is not directly related to the war in Ukraine. Even then, ask yourself if it really will bring any real value to the discussion. If not, consider leaving it out.
  3. If you feel offended by a post, or that a post goes against forum rules and guidelines then by all means report it. However, before you report something ask yourself is it really worth it, is it worth complaining about, or is it something that you should just scroll on by and ignore. If it breaks a forum rule, is illegal, or is just an outright insulting rude post by all means report it (rather than take matters into your own hands).
  4. Finally, we have people of all different walks of life here. We all have different opinions, but we are all here because share some common ground. Take that into account when you debate.

Carry on gentleman. As you were…
 
Wow, drgondog drgondog , there's a hell of a lot to unpack in there...including a whole bunch of conspiracy stuff. I'll try to respond without crossing over the political threshold.

drgondog said:
Or neither. If you refer to Tucker Carlson as weak, reflect that a.) he was 100% correct in presenting the Hunter Biden laptop as 'real' and not Russian Disinformation; b.) he was 100% correct that Twitter was 'banning and shadowbanning' conservative political leaders at the behest of both Administration and FBI for attempting to even Comment on the Biden laptop, greatly influencing the election of 2020 - as well as banning the NY Post for even reporting on it, c.) calling out the DOJ for citing angry parents at school board meetings as 'domestic terrorists', d.) reporting on the early rumors that CIA/US was behind Nordstream bombing, and e.) joining other pundits to note that Victoria Nuland was not only complicit wrt to threats against Nordstream but also admitting that US had bio labs in Ukraine
Click to expand...
Am I correct in understanding that, during the run-up to the 2020 election, the Republican Administration was responsible for banning efforts to comment on the Biden laptop prior to election? Now we have a Democrat Administration, but DOJ is pressing forward with an investigation into Hunter Biden. And somehow that's supposed to show that Carlson was right? Not sure I see the correlation there.

As for the Nordstream bombing, NONE of those rumours have been proven correct. I note you have not responded to my comments on that topic, which present a host of problems with the theories being spouted by unnamed sources.

Having ploughed through Hersh's article on the topic, it's just riddled with errors (here's a link for those who have time to waste: How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline). For example, apparently, in one of the planning meetings, the USAF proposed dropping bombs with delayed-action fuses that would be triggered remotely via command signal. Really? How would such weapons be triggered remotely? Does the USAF even have regular bombs that can do that, let alone bombs that can find targets underwater. Or is this more secret-squirrel stuff that, again, is somehow operated without anybody noticing (except the unnamed source that Hersh is referencing)?

Then there's another classic quote "In the past few years of East-West crisis, the U.S. military has vastly expanded its presence in Norway." I can tell you with 100% certainty that is not a correct statement. The USMC has increased training in Norway but forces are rotational and of the order of hundreds, not thousands, and the permanent party cadre is tiny. Then, according to Hersh, there's a "new U.S. submarine base" which, in reality, was USS New Mexico arriving in Tromso as part of a new bilateral agreement....hardly a "new base."

Then there's the timing problem. Apparently, the special team of planners flew to Norway in March 2022 to discuss the op with Norwegian counterparts. As noted in my earlier post, exercise planning starts 14 months in advance to ensure you have the right host nation, airspace and international water approvals, and to coordinate all participants. Unless the exercise was already placed smack dab ontop of Nordstream, then a late-breaking change in March 2022 at the earliest, would really stand out. You don't just change operating areas on a whim because it impacts the entire exercise planning and logistics. The alternate approach is that an exercise participant diverted from its exercise mission to conduct the operation...but, again, we're expected to believe that NOBODY saw this.

As to the aircraft dropping a sonobuoy to trigger the explosion, everyone that worked on or flew that aircraft must have been aware of something unusual happening. If you've ever worked on a multi-crew aircraft, you know it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE for the crew not to know what's going on. There's also the small challenge of the aircraft operating over Danish waters, which would require flight approval...but, again, no such flight plan or approval has come to light, nor have any of the countless aircraft spotters in Europe come up with a track showing such a profile around the time of the explosion.

Then there's the final cherry on the cake. The place selected was in Denmark's territorial waters. Apparently Norway insisted that the Danish and Swedish governments be informed that a diving event would be happening in the area. Apparently, arrangements were made to stop the information progressing up the command chain. However, when the actual explosion went off, nobody in Denmark, Sweden or Norway said "Hey, you never told us you'd be blowing up the pipeline." As soon as the explosion happened, there would be an inquisition to ask what was known by the Danish military...unless that was all hushed-up too (but, if so, why the need to stop info moving up Danish command chains)?

Once again, we have a conspiracy theory that requires literally THOUSANDS of people involved, across multiple nations, to hide something that was eventually reported in the open press. Oh, and by the way, no shred of evidence came out of efforts to explore what happened to the pipeline.

Just because Carlson and Hersh SAY that the US blew up Nordstream does not make it a fact. There is ZERO corroborating evidence. Everything is circumstantial. The simple inaccuracies elsewhere in the article, that cover things I DO know quite a lot about, strongly suggest to me that the entire piece is a work of fiction.



drgondog said:
As a challenge to you and others that have the wisdom and clarity of thought about the facts of the struggle in Ukraine, perhaps you or other individuals attacking either or both - please produce your credentials to debate combat, strategy, hands on experience at Field grade level and knowledge of trainining and logistical realities of the situation with either of Them. Especially YOU.
Click to expand...

I'm biting on this one, too. Let's see, I have 20 years' experience in the military, including field grade rank. I served at all echelons from tactical, up through 4-star service and Joint headquarters, and even in ministry-level positions. For the past 4 years I've supported multiple US Combatant Commands, including living and working for 3 years at one of them. My team spanned J2, J3, J5, J6, and J8 responsibilities, and did a fair bit of work on J4 equities, too. I've worked planning and operations processes, and have been directly involved in those for one of the headquarters. The work I've done has reached across the US Joint Force and impacted activities in multiple theatres to improve processes and drive materiel solutions to better support warfighters. I've briefed literally dozens of star-rank officers across two nations, and continue to engage at the O-6 level and above in my current work. Is that good enough for you?

As to the ability of conscripts, I would offer US experience in Vietnam as a classic example of where the draft simply didn't deliver the desired operational effects. Today's military is incredible complex, with technology that prior generations couldn't dream of. Being able to operate the new technologies while retaining the tactical nous to outthink the enemy is no small hill to climb...and conscripts won't get you there. Before you start going on again about how Ukraine has conscripts, I would observe that you were specifically asking why NATO hasn't introduced the draft. That's the question I'm responding to, not the wider implications of the draft for other nations.

For the rest of the post, the details you're asking for reside in the classified domain and can't be shared, even if I had such details. Like everyone on this forum, I'm using unclassified, open-source material upon which to make value judgements. Then again, perhaps that's why you're asking for these details...because you know that your request can't be answered. As to the maps you want us to produce, are you suggesting that the maps being pushed out by news organizations are wrong? If so, please share your rationale for that, with evidence to the contrary. See? We can both play this game.

I will state, ONCE AGAIN, that nobody on this forum has suggested Ukraine is winning. The country is fighting for its very existence and has lasted far longer than most pundits, including Macgregor, forecast. It is still unclear what would constitute a Russian victory, short of occupying the entire nation formerly known as Ukraine. It is clear that all Ukraine must do is not lose. So far, they've done a pretty damn fine job of that.
 
buffnut453 said:
I think, in part, stupidity is driven by humankind's tribal ancestry. We automatically divide people into groups of "us" and "them", whether it's the sports teams we support, the political parties we endorse, the "otherness" of people with differently-coloured skins, or even those in different social strata. If we always assume "we" are right, then "them" must clearly be wrong. "Them" are the people we don't listen to. "Them" become the enemy.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%
 
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