"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Iran sells drones to Russia. Iran funds Hamas.

In a very real sense, Russia is funding this attack on Israel.

I suspect Iran's going to collect a few Israeli air raids before too long.

 

[MiTasol]

Oh the hypocrisy

Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said: "We call on the Palestinian and Israeli sides to implement an immediate ceasefire, renounce violence, exercise the necessary restraint and establish, with the assistance of the international community, a negotiation process aimed at establishing a comprehensive, lasting and long-awaited peace in the Middle East."

 

[MiTasol]

Iran sells drones to Russia. Iran funds Hamas.

In a very real sense, Russia is funding this attack on Israel.

I suspect Iran's going to collect a few Israeli air raids before too long.

More likely Mossad will go into Iran and eliminate a lot of problems for both Israel and Ukraine

Hopefully this will also swing Israel into actively supporting Ukraine.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Iran sells drones to Russia. Iran funds Hamas.

In a very real sense, Russia is funding this attack on Israel.

I suspect Iran's going to collect a few Israeli air raids before too long.

In a very real sense, the United States is funding this attack on Israel. $6 billion to Iran buys a lot of weapons for Hamas.

 

[fubar57]

Ahem……

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

In a very real sense, the United States is funding this attack on Israel. $6 billion to Iran buys a lot of weapons for Hamas.

A valid point too, though I think that will be more in the future, rather than funding this assault.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well, it looks like the Palestinians are willing to give it another go.

Israel should have pushed all Arabs out of the entirety of historic Palestine after their victory in 1948. Arabs cannot live in peace within Israel anymore than Russians within Ukraine. There is just too much resentment and latent hostility. I would have expelled all the Arabs in Gaza into Egypt and all those in the West Bank into Jordan. Everything orange in the below right image would be an Arab-free zone. Maybe Golan Heights can go to Syria.

Much as if I was Zelenskyy, when this war is over I would march every Russian-supporting separatist to the border and push them into Russia. When the US won the revolutionary war, the Loyalists and British sympathizers were exiled to Canada and elsewhere, you cannot leave the unfinished business of resentful enemies in your midst.

 

[manta22]

Israel should have pushed all Arabs out of the entirety of historic Palestine after their victory in 1948. Arabs cannot live in peace within Israel anymore than Russians within Ukraine. There is just too much resentment and latent hostility. I would have expelled all the Arabs in Gaza into Egypt and all those in the West Bank into Jordan. Everything orange in the below right image would be an Arab-free zone. Maybe Golan Heights can go to Syria.

View attachment 740405

Much as if I was Zelenskyy, when this war is over I would march every Russian-supporting separatist to the border and push them into Russia. When the US won the revolutionary war, the Loyalists and British sympathizers were exiled to Canada and elsewhere, you cannot leave the unfinished business of resentful enemies in your midst.

The Golan Heights is too important to be in someone else's hands.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Golan Heights is too important to be in someone else's hands.

Fair enough. Golan goes to Israel too. All Arabs out, there's a whole Middle East, minus Iran for them to go to.

 

[Warspite63]

Fair enough. Golan goes to Israel too. All Arabs out, there's a whole Middle East, minus Iran for them to go to.

Now this is where it gets ........ difficult. Commeon sense, logic, and even precedent might say that this is the best way to avoid future issues in a conquered area. However, international law says that mass deportation of civilians is considered both a war crime and a crime against humanity (accordint to the UN anyway). So, Israel (in this case) had to decide whether the moral high ground is worth having a festering sore on the doorstep. And their conclusion is obvious. This is not just a cynical calculation to maintain support in the West (primarily, the US, of course): Israel is a rare beacon of democracy in a part of the world where democratic values are as abundant as hen's teeth. Israel has to perform a balancing act between armed fortress and vibrant liberal (gnerally) society. Do they always get it right? No, of course not. Comromises are required at times. However, if we want to belong to a rules-based system based on the rule of law, then we have to abide by those laws even when it's not convenient, or when instinct tells us that 'eye for an eye' is the way to go

Anyway, this isn't intended as a criticism - I'm as prone as any of wanting to adopt a clear, concise and .... logical solutioin to these issues

 

[Admiral Beez]

Now this is where it gets ........ difficult. Commeon sense, logic, and even precedent might say that this is the best way to avoid future issues in a conquered area. However, international law says that mass deportation of civilians is considered both a war crime and a crime against humanity

I was thinking of deportations in 1948, when they were still considered an option, and when Israel could very well argue they are expelling an invader and its collaborators and supporters within their borders. For example, until 1950 Germans were deported from across Europe. Nowadays it's politically and morally untenable for Israel to give them the shove. But if Ukraine manages to liberate the Donbas and Crimea, Zelenskyy cannot leave separatist-leaning ethnic Russians within his borders. It's a time bomb waiting to explode in the 2030s.

 

[Snowman]

I think that democracy - any democracy, be it Israel, Ukraine or anywhere else - must be able to defend itself. Otherwise there will be no democracy left at all. And the Russian world will reign everywhere on Earth.

 

[GrauGeist]

The problem with "Palestine", is that it's a region. It was never a "nation".

The area prior to the fall of the Ottomans, was considered under Lebanese, Syrian and Jordinian administration.

If there was such a thing as "ethnic Palastinians", it would include parts of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan.

 

[ThomasP]

The Hamas cannot manufacture their own rockets to any degree, so at some point the Israelis will find out who made them and where they are coming from (there were well over a thousand fired in the first couple of hours, and more are being fired every hour though in smaller amounts - the total is estimated at over 3500 so far).

Also, Hamas cannot win in any kind of a military sense - and that means they are waiting for something else to happen.

 

[J_P_C]

my personal opinion is that traces of russian's sticking fingers in Israel problems are clearly noticeable - they do have means and resources, they do have will and they do have clear reason to do so

 

[Marcel]

Guys, this thread is about the Ukraine

 

[Denniss]

Yes Ukraine. But the same bad players seem to be behind this attack although in reversed roles with Iran as the main player with russian support via Syria.

 

[N4521U]

Then there is the Problem in the U.S.A.!!!!!!!!!
All the groups who think this Palestinian Israeli thing is a Good thing.
Watch your backs!

 

[GrauGeist]

Guys, this thread is about the Ukraine

True, however the questions has to be asked: why now?

Hamas, who is backed and armed by Iran, typically sends a few rockets and/or drones into Israel on occasion.

This attack is completely different. The amount of munitions and the targets have been well planned beforehand.

So is this an attempt to draw attention away from Ukraine's pressure on Russia's hold on the Crimea?

And if so, why didn't Iran provide all this hardware to Russia, who could certainly use it right now to slow Ukraine's advances, instead.

 

[drgondog]

True, however the questions has to be asked: why now?

Hamas, who is backed and armed by Iran, typically sends a few rockets and/or drones into Israel on occasion.

This attack is completely different. The amount of munitions and the targets have been well planned beforehand.

So is this an attempt to draw attention away from Ukraine's pressure on Russia's hold on the Crimea?

And if so, why didn't Iran provide all this hardware to Russia, who could certainly use it right now to slow Ukraine's advances, instead.

I would suggest 'Because we (US) are seriously distracted by Russia/China and under 'inventoried' for conventional war.'

'We' just funded $6B to Iran

'We' have driven the Saudis away from us, and are now on opposite sides of the global monetary exchange as well as in the pits 'vis a vis' influence in Middle East.

'We' demonstrated how quickly we can leave 'host' countries holding the bag (Afghanistan). Ukraine looking pretty 'iffy' as we speak.

'We' (Federal Reserve) have hosed our allies with our Dollar/Fed mamagement practices.

'We' have not exhibited zeal in supporting Israel for last three years.

Maybe 'We' need a new crisis to increase DoD funding?