"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules





We should be in a period of serious rearmament, not apathy and complacent 'business and assumption as normal'. I can't see how that can be any less obvious. The parallels to the 1930s seem clear enough to me.
I think many/most European/NATO (and beyond - Australia for example) nations realise that an increase in Defence spending /capability/capacity is required. Look at recent comments from NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte calling for increased spending. The issue with comments from trump though is that they carry an implied "or else" (anyone need reminding re his comments re encouraging Russia to do"whatever the hell they want"?) This is the part (especially when combined with other comments) that in unacceptable and comes across as blackmail. Mobster diplomacy is unacceptable.
 
Frightening. Won't the world be more fun when this tech is more readily available?
 
I think many/most European/NATO (and beyond - Australia for example) nations realise that an increase in Defence spending /capability/capacity is required. Look at recent comments from NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte calling for increased spending. The issue with comments from trump though is that they carry an implied "or else" (anyone need reminding re his comments re encouraging Russia to do"whatever the hell they want"?) This is the part (especially when combined with other comments) that in unacceptable and comes across as blackmail. Mobster diplomacy is unacceptable.
We either shift for ourselves on defence then - or do nothing and risk seeing America withdraw interest, commitment and money and like Europe in the 30s, do too little, too late and in an uncoordinated way.

I don't like his approach either. But he DOES have an undeniable point. Those GDP defence figures speak entirely for themselves. And vague promises of possible higher spending in the sometime vague future clearly won't cut it with him OR Putin either. I don't think they convince ANY of the defence chiefs across the various nation's armed forces, either, do they?

You can call it mobster diplomacy if you want - but what can anyone actually do about it, and what does he care anyway!?

I somehow think he doesn't give a flying #*£$ about European disapproval. He's a disruptor, he's a brinksman and several far less flattering adjectives. But there he is, elected soon to be leader of the world's most powerful military power and lynchpin of NATO. I don't think angry letters or a hard-hitting sticker campaign which are about the only options are going to achieve very much, do you? Besides which, the rest of Europe is also going to have to manage his threat of looming tariffs and the inevitable trade war that will bring. Equitable diplomatic and economic relations are not what he's interested in.

A realistic assessment of the actuality of the situation and a rapid practical response is urgently needed. Unfortunately, Europe and the wider flung parts of NATO are - as ever in recent history - farting about with a long list of excuses for inaction and another chunk of cosy assumptions that things will quickly revert back to business as usual.

We have, I deeply suspect, crossed a Rubicon. So it seems to me that for the time being (and urgently!) we either man up collectively and get on with what needs to be done, or we put up, shut up, live with the consequences and whine about them afterwards (if we even have that liberty)

Are there really any other alternatives to that stark choice?

In the meantime:

"Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last. All of them hope that the storm will pass before their turn comes to be devoured. But I fear greatly that the storm will not pass. It will rage and it will roar ever more loudly, ever more widely."
 
Last edited:
Russian commanders resist Putin's orders -- refuse to send troops across Dnipro River


''...Intelligence suggests that around 2,000 assault troops and approximately 300 speedboats have been assembled in the Kherson region. Yet, many high-ranking officers view the proposed attack as a death sentence and are hesitant to deploy their soldiers and resources, according to the ATESH partisan group. They shared on their Telegram channel: "Russian military commanders refuse to send their subordinates to assaults in the Kherson region..."
 
Russian commanders resist Putin's orders -- refuse to send troops across Dnipro River


''...Intelligence suggests that around 2,000 assault troops and approximately 300 speedboats have been assembled in the Kherson region. Yet, many high-ranking officers view the proposed attack as a death sentence and are hesitant to deploy their soldiers and resources, according to the ATESH partisan group. They shared on their Telegram channel: "Russian military commanders refuse to send their subordinates to assaults in the Kherson region..."
This speaks volumes - when regular Russian elements defy a direct order, which is virtually unheard of.

And you just know that the Ukrainians are over there, just waiting for them.
 
We either shift for ourselves on defence then - or do nothing and risk seeing America withdraw interest, commitment and money and like Europe in the 30s, do too little, too late and in an uncoordinated way.
I think the real risk is that no matter what is done the risk is high that the USA will go increasingly isolationist under the new regime. Besides there are too many Putin apologists/admirers there.

the world's most powerful military power and lynchpin of NATO.
And herein lies the problem if the USA decides to turn its back on NATO which is a distinct possibility

Besides which, the rest of Europe is also going to have to manage his threat of looming tariffs and the inevitable trade war that will bring. Equitable diplomatic and economic relations are not what he's interested in.
Tariffs and trade wars hurt everyone. Anyone who believes they can "win" are complete morons.
 
I get it that the U.S. and it's policy makers have a direct influence on Putin's "special operation" and can be very relevant to this thread, but can we try to avoid personal views about policies and/or policymakers (U.S. or otherwise) because this is where the conversation gets out of control.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Sisu
Back