Allied Silver-Match (Biplanes)

[DAVIDICUS]

Fiat CR.42 Falco vs. Gloster Gladiator

Famous test-pilot Captain Eric M. Brown stated that combat between the Fiat CR.42 Falco and the Gladiator would be a fascinating duel between the two best biplane fighters in the world.

Head to head, which was the superior dogfighter vis a vis the other?

 

[mosquitoman]

I'd take the Gladiator

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Besides being British, why?

 

[mosquitoman]

enclosed cockpit, I don't like the feeling of the wind in my air

 

[cheddar cheese]

Id take the CR.42. Faster, more manoeverable, better looking...

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Gladiators:

Falcos:

 

[mosquitoman]

Nope, still prefer the Gladiator

 

[cheddar cheese]

I feel the Cr.42 was more versatile too. The CR42 was used by Italian, German, Swedish, Hungarian and Belgian airforces, And used by both the Germans and Italians up until 1943 as a day and night fighter, and also a ground attack machine.

The CR42 was a delightful machine to fly and was the best biplane in service in 1940. Although the days of the biplane fighter were numbered it continued to take part in air operations until the end of 1943 and was built in greater numbers than any other Italian Second World War fighter.

This immensely strong and very manoeuvrable fighter first saw combat in the brief two week campaign over Southern France. Light losses against the French gave the Italians a mistaken impression that their tactics and aircraft were highly effective.

National pride and political prestige, rather than military necessity, led the Italian Dictator Mussolini to send a force of bombers and fighters to take part in the air battles against Great Britain. Arriving at airfields on the Channel coast in October 1940 they proved something of an embarrassment to the Luftwaffe who had resisted the move for some time. Bad weather and obsolescent equipment meant that the venture was not a success.

Little combat with British fighters took place over the British Isles but it did reveal the CR42's major weakness; its armament of two machine guns was no more than a First World War fighter and it was unable to inflict major damage on its opponents.

 

[DAVIDICUS]

"Arriving at airfields on the Channel coast in October 1940 they proved something of an embarrassment to the Luftwaffe who had resisted the move for some time."

I could just see the ME-109 pilots flying in formation with CR.42's wearing shirts that had a big arrow saying "I'm with stupid."

A analogous situation would be German infantry with K98's going into battle side by side with spear chucking Zulus.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Too true

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

hang on CC on what are you basing your claim she was more manouverable??

 

[cheddar cheese]

Acouple of pilots accounts that ive read in which the same pilot has flown both. This was a while back though, ill have to try and hunt it down again.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yeah i'd like to read that..........

 

[DAVIDICUS]

From: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco.htm


The CR.42 Falco (Falcon) was the last of the great biplane fighters entering flight testing in late May 1938. It was a successor of CR.32 that had claimed great success in the Spanish skies during the civil war.
The CR.42 was manufactured in larger numbers than any other Italian fighter, remaining in production as late as 1943. Extremely light on the controls, universally viewed as a delight to fly, superbly agile and innately robust, the CR.42 synthesised a decade-and-a-half of continuos fighter development; it was a thoroughbred with a distinguished pedigree carrying fighter biplane evolution to its apex.

The famous test-pilot Captain Eric M. Brown, RN, had an opportunity to fly the captured CR.42 MM5701, which was captured after a forced-landing in the later stages of Battle of Britain. He reported that the aircraft was an aerobatic gem. It was remarkably fast for a biplane with a top speed of 270 mph at 12,400 ft and a marginal stability, the hallmark of a good fighter. The CR.42 was a superb biplane that gave an outstanding performance for its type, but as a fighter it was under-gunned. Though highly manoeuvrable, like all aircraft with a lot of fabric covering it was very vulnerable to enemy fire.
--------------------

Gloster Gladiator

Technical details
Type:__________Fighter
Span:__________9.83 m
Lenght:________8.36 m
Engine:________Bristol Mercury VIIIS3 / 840 hsp.
Max speed:_____410 km/h at 4,400 m
Max ceiling:___10500 m
Range:_________715 km
Armament:______4x8 mm Browning machine guns + bombs


CR.42 Falco

Technical details
Type:__________Fighter and Reconnaissance
Span:__________9.7 m
Length:________8.25 m
Engine:________Fiat A.74 RC 38 / 840 hsp
Max speed:_____430 km/h
Max ceiling:___10200 m
Range:_________775 km
Armament:______2x12.7 mm machine guns + 200 kg of bombs

 

[cheddar cheese]

Ive looked for that pilot account but I cant find it. I belive Kiwimac posted it here a while back. Does anyone else have any paticular accounts of pilots who flew both planes?

 

[Soren]

enclosed cockpit, I don't like the feeling of the wind in my air

 

[mosquitoman]

I meant hair, surely you've had someone fart in your face before

 

[Soren]

I meant hair, surely you've had someone fart in your face before

No, not that I can remember atleast !

 

[cheddar cheese]

I havent. It goes against the geneva convention

 

[DAVIDICUS]

CC, you said, "Ive looked for that pilot account but I cant find it. I belive Kiwimac posted it here a while back. Does anyone else have any paticular accounts of pilots who flew both planes?"

Did you see my last post? Captain Eric Brown flew both and commented on the CR.42. His comments reflect his experience having flown the Gloster Gladiator.
--------------------

More from: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/gladiator.htm

The Gloster Gladiator was, as the famous test-pilot Captain Eric M. Brown put it, undoubtedly one of the greatest biplane fighter ever built, but, appearing almost simultaneously with the first of the new breed of heavily armed monoplane fighters and bombers, it was pitched into a combat era where it was outgunned and outperformed, though never outmaneuvered.

Brown also stated that combat between the Fiat CR.42 Falco and the Gladiator would bee a fascinating duel between the two best biplane fighters in the world. The CR.42 had a slight speed advantage, the Gladiator a slight armament advantage. In the matter of maneuverability the aircraft were about equal, and each was lightweight in construction. A combat between them would be decided on the skills of the opposing pilots. The outcome could go either way.

From: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco.htm

The famous test-pilot Captain Eric M. Brown, RN, had an opportunity to fly the captured CR.42 MM5701, which was captured after a forced-landing in the later stages of Battle of Britain. He reported that the aircraft was an aerobatic gem. It was remarkably fast for a biplane with a top speed of 270 mph at 12,400 ft and a marginal stability, the hallmark of a good fighter. The CR.42 was a superb biplane that gave an outstanding performance for its type, but as a fighter it was under-gunned. Though highly manoeuvrable, like all aircraft with a lot of fabric covering it was very vulnerable to enemy fire.

Captured CR.42 being flown by RAF